Windows 7 student upgrade hell

I've given up on all this Windows Vis7a crap. I'm trying out Ubuntu at http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
I'd rather have an opens source OS than another proprietary one.

Hello mac…can you play Blueray movies?

Why does anyone care what kind of computer other people prefer? It's like arguing between Adidas and Nike. For some reason, though, nobody cares about that. I think you've all been brainwashed by marketing. Listen to how stupid you all are.

Or you mean $500 for the hardware and software……..and yet having system specs 10x faster than your 'little mac'

You should get a mac because it works first time, every time. Not like Windows where, here we are fifteen years later and they still haven't quite got it right…
Oh, and the "$2000" includes hardware and software, unlike the WinTel machine that is $1800 for the hardware and $200 for the OS.

I just wasted 250.00 dollars on this piece of junk. It does not work correctly. In the middle of writing a paper it changes the font size, Impossible to correct. After you correct it, it works o.k, and starts it again. Tricky to learn slow to download and open. dont waste your money.

Yes everyone should go by a MAC. When you get your MAC, make sure you take a look at realize it has a Seagate Hard Drive, an Intel Processor, and PC Memory. Then ask yourself why you just overpaid $2000 for this overpriced PC?

I'm going back to Amiga too. By the way, anyone downloading an OS should be ready for a rough ride. 64 bit is another fun ride so you are really asking for it. I've been downloading Linux distros and I tried the student thing. It took some fiddling but the workaround worked.

GET a mac can't go wrong many $$$$$$in microsofts pocketsthey will never get it right

I thought all students used Macs by now. Apparently not yet, but they will.

This is known as 2 things. 1 is UE or User Error. The other is known as DTTHW or Doing Things The Hard Way.
So far I have installed over 100 copies of Windows 7 on everything from OLD XP machines to new vista machines. I have done clean installs and upgrades and have worked on both laptops and desktops.

I have had only 1 issue with a printer and it was a DOT MATRIX printer. It took me all of 30 minutes to locate a driver that would allow it to work.

To create an ISO all you need to do is utilize a free download to do it. No command prompts, nothing like that.
Go to your favorite search engine.
Search for ISO Maker
Download ISO Maker
You may already have a program that can do it. Nero does it for example. This is known as RTM Read The Manual.
Drag and drop the files you want in the ISO.
Burn the Cd (in this case DVD).

Seriously people, either do it right or have it done for you.

I took advantage of the student deal and the upgrade from Vista to Windows 7 was flawless. Didn't experience any download or file problems, but then again I was smart enough to wait a couple days after the electronic version was released. Extremely happy with the decision..

I can't get any of my old printers to work – one is only about a year old. Apparently you need to buy a new printer if you can find one that supports/is supported by Windows7.

I'm going back to Amiga OS.

"They purchased a product to perform an upgrade of their existing 32-bit OS to a new 64-bit OS, which is not possible."

Actually it IS possible as demonstrated by Apple's Panther (32-bit) to Snow Leopard (64-bit) upgrade path. Let's face for all its improvements Windows 7 suffers from really sloppy programming. I mean if Apple can come up with ONE version of the OS why does Microsoft need six different ones?

Actually Stuart, the last update… Snow Leopard produced tremendous revenue at only being 30 dollars as well. Secondly, have fun without an iPod as it and the iPhone are probably two of the BIGGEST success stories in the music and phone industry.

Windows 7 is a decent operating system, but i've ran into many more problems in the small amount of time I've had it compared to the year i've had leopard.

So so far Windows 7 hasn't done anywhere near as good as the recent OSX upgrade to Snow Leopard.

Haha, aren't Macs wonderful? Although I'm only 15, I just recently (a year ago) switched to Macs. We got an iMac, and my goodness was that a change. There was no C drive! It was "Macintosh HD". Looking through the folders, I'm astounded how simple it can and should be, how I dealt with XP since I was seven is beyond me!

Well everyone, both Apple and Microsoft are great OS's. I own a Macbook Pro but little will i ever use my Apple OS, its 20 gigs were my Windows 7 is 90 gigs. Apple is great don't get me wrong i had been using Apple for the last 3 years because Vista sucked. Yes sometimes when you use outside companies to sell your OS it can get screwed up but at least they are telling people how to fix it and everything like that. Windows 7 is way different Faster and smooth. Yes macs can get virus but they rarely do because people want to program for the most common OS out there. People its a Dam OS yes Apples is Great but at the same time Windows 7 is completely different and until you try it for more then 3 hours dont talk crap about it.

Apple a company that was barely hanging on by a thread a few years ago. If it hadn't been for the "trendy" Ipod the ship would of been all but sunk. No I wouldn't own an Ipod because basically there is so much better out there. No I wouldn't own an Iphone (A name they stole from Cisco System and had to settle out of court on). Also what happened to the "MAC's can't get virus?" I have noticed there has been some viruses for MACs. Granted there aren't as many as there are for Windows but it is like saying there wasn't many recalls on the Ford Festiva. So all you Apple fans can be silent. I bet that the next release of MAC OS doesn't go nearly as well as any version of Windows.

haha what a moron (ComputerUser). u just wasted an hour crying over a lost cause.

I think we are all fooled by Microsoft and Apple. Just like some of you all here mentioned that it does not matter, Mac or Windows, they both are just OS. I agree to some of you that it matters when you need to get your job done or need to use PC for some purposes. Other than that, Apple and Microsoft are just two companies trying to monopolize the market. We all should focus more on what are the benefits for us for our money and comfort. Whatever works for one person might not work for the other. And we all have different preferences and directions, as well as thinking. Therefore, why take side? so we can let Apple or Microsoft rules us? Well, as a Computer Sales Rep., I don't care if it's Apple laptop, Dell, or HP laptop, as long as my customer gets what he/she needs and can afford that, I am happy.

To David in San Diego;

1. Windows 7 beats the newest MAC in security? What, because MAC doesn't have Address Space Layout Randomization? This is like putting a personal fire extinguisher into a Ford Pinto and then claiming that Ford Pintos are safer than Volvos because Volvos don't have personal fire extinguishers. Of course, the reason that Volvos don't have personal fire extinguishers in every car is because, unlike Ford Pintos, Volvos don't have a history of exploding into a fiery inferno when rear-ended. Macs don't have ASLR? Who cares? MS implemented ASLR in order to make life more difficult for viruses and trojans — because the location of critical files in memory is unpredictable. Macs solved this problem by adopting the user/group/world permissions schema used successfully for years by UNIX systems. Someone keeps breaking into your home? MAC solves this by putting proper locks on the doors. MS solves this by randomly relocating the rooms of the house.

2. You have "never had a single problem with" Windows, yet you admit that Windows Vista "was crap". Why do you call it crap, unless you had a problem with it? You say that Windows 7 is great, "even with all the bugs". Dude, have you ever even used a MAC? I mean really used one? It is obvious that you have not, since you seem to think that an OS with a bunch of bugs (i.e., Windows) is "great".

3. Honestly, David, I have never met anyone who claims that Macs are flawless. Not one. However, I have read many posts by PC fans such as yourself who claim that "they", the mythical MAC fan-boy, say this or that. You just made that up, didn't you? You've never heard anyone say that MACs are flawless, have you? Come on, David — be a man and admit that you have never heard an actual, real, human say in person to you that MACs are flawless.

4. "Mac is so specific". What is your point? Apparently, your big complaint here is that you can't buy a MAC OS by itself. That's funny, I can go the Apple website and buy MAC OS by itself. You can, too. You can install it on non-Apple hardware; check out any of the hackintosh sites. Ohhh… I get it — you are making excuses for the fact that MS has problems, and you are insinuating, in textbook MS FUD fashion, that the MAC OS would be less easy to set up or use on other hardware, and that the MAC is, therefore, inferior — somehow — to Windows. This is not only insinuation, it is pure speculation on your part. What makes you think that MS does a better job supporting different hardware than MAC OS would? Because MS has so many hardware and device driver problems, I bet. Guess what? If MS had intelligent permissions (like MAC OS and other UNIX-based OSes do) that prevented a device driver from mucking up system files, Windows might not have had all of these problems. At least you admit that.

Which brings me to your 5th point:

5. You claim that you have installed UNIX or LINUX "on all of my computers". You obviously must like UNIX and LINUX, or you wouldn't have installed them on ALL of your computers. So… UNIX = GOOD. But wait a sec, you then dismiss MAC OS because it was "a gui interface" on top of UNIX "to make it more user friendly". Normally, USER FRIENDLY = GOOD. So, LINUX = GOOD, and LINUX + USER FRIENDLY = GOOD, and MAC = UNIX, which is usually… GOOD. But somehow, you then conclude that MAC = BAD. Wow, dude… that's totally irrational.

Finally, I have to call BS on tired old "smaller market share = less attacks" line. Wow, are you gullible. The truth is "more secure OS = fewer successful attacks". That, David, is the very fact that MS hopes that you and the rest of the world don't ever realize.

ex ped: Now THAT is a well-framed post. Whether you agree or disagree with the point ComputerUser is making, you have to admire the skill with which it was made. Watch and learn, dear readers.

Philip Elmer-DeWitt must be laughing all the way to the bank (or his editor) over this silly "debate".

It is amazing to me the amount of vile that has been spewn from what I would guess are supposedly "intellegent" people.

Would you speak to or treat your Grand Mother this way? I think not.

Manners, please. Manners.

I Thank the few of you that have given thoughtful, helpful service, and unbiased advice. Advice lacking venomous (sp?) opine or spirit.

Jeez……..Which is better?
Amana or Whirlpool?
Let the debate begin!

When I read this story, I read that the college students bought the wrong product, plain and simple. They purchased a product to perform an upgrade of their existing 32-bit OS to a new 64-bit OS, which is not possible. A clean installation of a new 64-bit OS (which is required in order to go from 32-bit to 64-bit) is not an upgrade and should not be described as such. So whose fault is it? Is it the fault of the OS manufacturer that publicly posts the possible/supported OS upgrade paths? Is it the fault of a web-based store that does not require customers to speak with a live person before ordering something? Or is it the fault of the customer for purchasing the wrong product via the Internet? The manufacturer and reseller are certainly receiving a large share of the blame. Is it really fair that the customer receives none?

ex ped: siblades was not trying to do the impossible. Perhaps you should read his post a little more closely:

My reading skills are just fine. He purchased something labeled as a "Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit Upgrade". Maybe Microsoft/Digital River could have been more clear with their label, or found some way to ensure that purchasers knew that a "…64-Bit Upgrade" implies that you are upgrading your existing 64-bit OS to a new 64-bit OS. In any case, he downloaded an EXE file and tried to run the file to perform an in-place upgrade (which would work if he was upgrading a 64-bit OS). The upgrade failed because it is impossible to upgrade from a 32-bit OS to a 64-bit OS.

ex ped: Not to belabor this, but siblades was trying to a clean install, not an upgrade. And as I understand the situation, it failed because there was no ISO file in the Digital River download. As Michael, the indefatigable Microsoft engineer who has been fielding the complaints, writes:

For those customers of the Student Offer, who wish to install the 64-bit version of Windows 7, but are currently running a 32-bit Operating System, there is now an optional downloadable ISO file of Windows 7 64-bit to allow for install.

I'm not saying this stuff is easy. Look at how many times Michael has had to update his instructions:

* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerThursday, October 22, 2009 7:20 PMedit
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerFriday, October 23, 2009 1:51 AMupdate
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSaturday, October 24, 2009 12:34 AMmore info
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSaturday, October 24, 2009 12:35 AMmore info
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSaturday, October 24, 2009 12:36 AMupdate with information
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSunday, October 25, 2009 3:43 AMmore information
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSunday, October 25, 2009 3:45 AMfixed
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSunday, October 25, 2009 3:45 AMedit
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSunday, October 25, 2009 4:29 AM
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, OwnerSunday, October 25, 2009 4:30 AM
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 20 minutes agonew info
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 18 minutes agomore info
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 14 minutes ago
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 13 minutes ago
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 9 minutes ago
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 9 minutes ago
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 7 minutes ago
* Edited byMichael – Support EngineerMSFT, Owner14 hours 5 minutes ago

"In other words, the problem wasn't that siblades was trying to install Windows 7 64-bit Upgrade on a PC running 32-bit Windows Vista. It was that the product he purchased didn't work."

I read the thread that siblades started. However, we should be clear when talking about upgrading to Windows 7. Microsoft does not offer or support an in-place upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit (or the other way around). Currently the only way to go from a 32-bit to a 64-bit (or vice versa) Windows OS is to complete a clean install. What I have gleaned from other sources is that siblades encountered this situation by design. That is, he (and many others) were trying to do the impossible (perform an in-place upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit) and it did not work.

ex ped: siblades was not trying to do the impossible. Perhaps you should read his post a little more closely:

"I was led to believe that upon downloading, I would get an .ISO file, which I would then burn to a DVD. Then I would boot from this DVD and do a clean/custom install."

(emphasis mine)

I have to admit I'm always very nervous doing OS upgrades. I'm both a Windows and Unix (Sun Solaris,HP-UX,Linux) user and have also done some sysadmin duites.

I break out in a cold sweat each time I do and OS upgrade. I've been in the IT field over 15 years and my experience has been there is always some problem with OS upgrades despite what the OS vendor says. It has never been a "seamless" or trouble free process. Something ALWAYS breaks, period!

If you're lucky the problem is a quick fix. If you're not so lucky (which is usually the case) the problems you bump into can be pretty painfull and result in days or weeks of debugging and troubleshooting.

Advice to everyone out there doing an OS upgrade. BACKUP UP EVERYTHING ESPECIALLY USER DATA!!!

FYI

You can not upgrade from a 32 bit to a 64 bit OS. Upgrades only apply from a 32 bit to a 32 bit or from a 64 bit to another 64 bit.

Ok, as mentioned before by others. A MAC is a PC.

Apple 15.4" MacBook Pro Notebook
2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile, 4GB DDR3, 250GB HDD, DVD±RW DL = Costs around $1650 from about 8 vendors

The same hardware in a HP, Dell, Acer, or Sony runs right about $1000.

The only difference between them is the OS. That’s it. This can't be disputed either way.

Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard runs on fewer PCs than Windows based products. Leopard doesn't have the viral issues that Windows has but also doesn't have a quarter of the software available for Windows products.

Leopard is great for what it does. Unfortunately what it does is limited.

I really would love to shoot the people who post to threads with 'I have the same problem…or some sort of rant or bash'. It makes it SO hard to read what other people are trying to say and doesnt allow us to fix the issue when we'd have to wade through so many replies.

I seriously doubt that there isnt a mix of problems here, not just on the part of the installer

In response to "You can upgrade to 64 bit if you do a clean install". That is pretty lame response because it is not an upgrade. A clean install is just as it sounds; a clean install.

ex ped: Fair enough Mike, although please note that the product we are talking about is called "Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit Upgrade." Moreover, Mo has misrepresented the problem people are having with the upgrade. Here's how it was described by siblades, who first reported it on Microsoft's Forums:

I am experiencing big problems trying to install Windows 7 onto my laptop. I will try and be as clear as possible in explaining.

My laptop is currently running Windows Vista Home Premium 32-Bit. I have purchased the Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit Upgrade from the Microsoft Student Offer.

I was led to believe that upon downloading, I would get an .ISO file, which I would then burn to a DVD. Then I would boot from this DVD and do a clean/custom install.

This has not been possible. Upon downloading from the Microsoft Student Website, I get 3 files. These are:

Win7-P-Retail-en-us-x64.exe

setup1.box

setup2.box

I double click on "Win7-P-Retail-en-us-x64.exe" and I get the message "Unloading the Box". Once the status bar reaches the end, I get the following error:

"We are unable to create or save new files in the folder in which this application was downloaded. Please check the folder properties to make sure that you have security permission on the folder to write files and that the folder is not read-only".

In other words, the problem wasn't that siblades was trying to install Windows 7 64-bit Upgrade on a PC running 32-bit Windows Vista. It was that the product he purchased didn't work.

I bet 99% of you Apple bashers own an iPod

This article is complete nonsense. If you actually read the thread that the article is referring to, you realize that the problem that's arising is from a user trying to upgrade from 32 to 64-bit, which is not possible. This has nothing to do with Win 7, just an ignorant user. Obviously the magnitude of the problem was blown up because an Apple representative wrote this…

ex ped: Wrong on both counts, Mo. 1) You can upgrade to 64 bit if you do a clean install. 2) And this was not written by an Apple representative.

I used the student version on an old Dell P4 and it installed OK, however it was VERY tedious getting my video, sound, wifi, printers, and pretty much everything else to run, since none of the XP drivers worked in Win7 without some workarounds.

I kept thinking, wow, the casual user is doomed because it was a very complicated process getting everything to work post-install. Have you tried running windows in 640×480, without internet? I was fortunate and had my original XP software running on a 2nd drive on the same PC, so I could switch back and forth as needed to get new driver software and research technical forums.

This information is drastically off…

The thread has 27759 views and about 17 replies. I would get your facts right. The issue has been fixed.

ex ped: Nice try, Anonymous. The thread with 27,759 views is the one that pointed to Download Squad's solution to the problem. The one begun by the user who first wrote about it was locked by Microsoft after 582 replies and 63,698 views.

Vista is the reason I moved to Ubuntu-Linux. I don't have to upgrade my hardware, I'm not subject to viruses and trojans, and I can download and install thousands upon thousands of free open source programs.

Really hate this whole argument. Mac fanatics, for the most part, fail to recognize that the whole argument over which is better is stupid.

Macs are PCs.

Sorry, hate to burst your bubble, but they are. Intel Inside.

Only difference between a Mac and a Dell, other than their OS, is that Macs are more limited in hardware configurations. I refuse to buy any name brand PC, as I can build my own for a lot less money, and have more control of what software is on my system.

I can build a Mac, and for a lot less money than apple charges, which is my big problem with the company. I shouldn't have to pay almost twice as much for my hardware for the privilege of using their software. I would go this route, but I don't want to hamstring myself in what hardware I can use.

Win 7 is an excellent OS. I didn't bother with Vista, and yes, XP was a nightmare when it was first released. If you actually take the time to maintain your AV software, and don't clutter up your system with a bunch of useless crap, you won't have any issues. Most of the issues with Windows come from the fact that the OS has to be more flexible, because it doesn't limit you on what hardware you can use.

So yeah, if you are lazy, have the money to burn, and really believe that Macs are immune to viruses, be my guest. There was a time, when Mac hardware really wasn't just Intel hardware with an inflated pricetag, that I really wanted to go with a Mac. Now, I refuse to buy anything with an apple logo on it.

No one I know had problems with the student installation process for Windows 7 and quite a few of us took advantage of the offer. Even on launch day I was able to download the files at almost 2 MB (bytes, not bits)/sec. After it downloaded I was a little disappointed that it didn't come as an ISO, however if it DID come as an ISO there would probably be much more than 500 people wondering how they use/burn an ISO image – just because some of us use ISOs all the time doesn't mean that the major of computer users do. After I created an ISO and burned it to a DVD, I decided to try the .exe the unpacker created and was surprised at how SIMPLE the entire process was. I ran the .exe and after 20 minutes or so Windows 7 was installed. This was by far the easiest Windows installation I ever installed. It must have been a slow news day to nitpick the 3rd party's installation method as somehow implying that Windows 7's upgrade process is 'hell'. Anyways, for you Mac users: Now that Mac can run on Intel processors, can you get the Mac OS and install it on your own hardware? I would love to try the Mac OS, but being stuck to only certain hardware is a deal breaker for me.

Vista — "All the incompatibility of a Mac, but at half the price".

Win7 will probably be something like, "Well, you didn't need all that other stuff on your hard disk anyway, did you?"

Mac fanatics, get a grip and get out into the real world… Mac's simply are not used in many of the engineering firms of the world for one reason, they do not run the software.

Sure, you can run degraded in a emulator, or even bootcamp but why? So I can be on a slower platform?

After 25 years in the industry, going from Vax to Unix to Dos to Windows, the one constant is 98% of the software we use in a 20,000 person firm simply will not run directly on a Mac… and we could not afford it if it did… and many of our competitors are exactly the same.

As far as the problems touted by many, on my Windows XP machine I usually keep ~7 Windows Communicator sessions, 3-5 Remote Desktop, 2 Remote Admin, 2-3 Excel worksheets, 3-4 IE, Outlook, several remote server folders opened, and more… for weeks at a time, with no problems.

My wife's company had a failed drive in the Mac Server they have, they had to go for Mac$$$ support to get it fixed a few days later. Were it a PC, it would have been fixed that day for a fraction of the cost.

Mac's have their place, but it is severely limited by what will natively run on them.

No way! I was scared and didn't want to download it after paying for the software. Not to mention the initial approval e-mail didn't mention anything about the purchase is unrefundable. I didn't the compatibility run and found out my laptop won't be able to properly use Win7 features. I requested a refund but got denied. Therefore, who says that Microsoft is offering refund????

I love how PC users so often argue that PCs are better because they're more ubiquitous. That's like arguing that a Kia is a better car than a BMW because no one can service a BMW in your town. Does the fact that the world runs on PCs make them necessary? Yes. Is owning a PC a waste of time? Of course not. That doesn't mean that PCs are any better than Macs. These pathetic pro-PC arguments are desperate; the people that sling them are no less "fanatics" and cult-like devotees towards PCs than Mac users are.

No sense arguing over Operating Systems. Unless you have tried both Mac and PC OS's you aren't qualified to make much of a judgment.

I use both, and much prefer my Mac, but then I do web programming and manage servers and the Mac OS is build on BSD so it has all of the Unix commands built in. You can add the GCC compiler free of charge, etc.

Nothing wrong with the PC, just different and less expensive. I think it is worth the extra to have a Mac, as do a growing number of people based on Apples growing market share, which is still a fraction of the PC market.

So, use what you want, but you owe it to yourself to try both extensively to see which one works for you. If you are like me, once you've had a Mac you won't go back;)

The problems with Microsoft as a company go way beyond operating systems. The Zune sucked, the X-box and then the X-box 360 were plagued with problems (overheating 360's are STILL being sold by some vendors and Microsoft won't stand behind them) and Vista was the latest bang in the butt from Billy and the Boys. With that history, who in their right mind would give them another go with Win 7?

That MAC has a simpler task designing for a single platform is exactly the point, and is the reason Macs just seem to be more thoroughly thought through as a product. I never expected a system without mistakes or an occasional crash. I do expect a system to reflect good design. And Apple has done exactly that. Everything today is iSomething or other. Their stuff reflects finished products that SATISFY.

My days of building PCs began with Win 95 (ouch!) Win 98 (blows) Me (SUUUUCCKKED!!) and XP (finally adequate). Never went to Vista because it was unfinished, badly executed crap.

In this context, the CNN article isn't picking on Microsoft. They're simply highlighting what Microsoft does repeatedly. In this instance, allowing a third party to distribute this crucial OS and risk this kind of screw up is no different than Bill Gates putting Win98 on public display and having it crash before the world: lousy attention to detail.

And that's why, ultimately, PCs suck compared to Mac.

I feel so sorry for all the sorry suckers of apple that keep faking comments about 'Had it with MS, moving to Apple'
Not just Windows but even the new Linux whooped the butt of your over-priced, sucking incompatible Leopard-on-mac.. You are no where on the charts & for a good reason.
The messiah of your cult: Mr Jobs, tries to hog the whole food-chain. so everything has to be bought from Apple. Thats why the incompatibilty.

So keep up the rhetoric of your cult..
Aint gonna change nothin..

LOSERS!!!

I'm facing the upgrade from XP to Win 7, and to be frank, the requirement to save all your files to an external drive, and then reinstall every program isn't just daunting, it's freaking stupid. But then, it is just Microsoft's speed.

For all the Windows fanbois, you don't have to reinstall your entire application base when you upgrade from one version of OS X to another, not even if you've skipped a couple of major versions.

This is a Major headache.

To all Microsofties: See your stock NOW! Pack up and move to Cupertino!

I think we're going to see more crap from Microsoft. OK let me see if I get this. I'm a simple Mac user who has used PC's since Windows 3.1 and Apple Macs since OS 7. So explain it VERY slowly for me so my pea-sized brain can understand, K?

Microsoft releases an ISO to vendor "X", whatever the vendor. The ISO does not work. The installer fails, the thing just doesn't work.

Now somehow a Mac computer is overpriced and overrated. Windows is "customizable" but the Mac OS (though it is based on the Berkley version of Unix) is not customizable or not as customizable. My friend wanted to customize her Windows based Dell – but guess what? If she does that Dell won't support her – she's on her own. Hmmmmm….

If I want to create a PDF on my Windows PC with Windows XP Pro – I have to BUY a PDF writer or find some hack. Let's see…need to test my network connection – have to go to a DOS window – and know the commands – again without a hack. Need to read a PDF? Get a PDF reader. Want to create scripts to run my apps – buy a package or find a hack. Want to play a DVD – yep – you got it better have the software – or find a hack. Want to reinstall the operating system – better have backed up the machine recently. And you BETTER not have a problem that can't be solved with the boot disk – and by the way – have the RIGHT boot disk. Those are all the things I have to contend with in my home-based office. MEANWHILE…back at the ranch (a few steps away), my Mac Powerbook works like gangbusters four years after I bought it, still took a RAM upgrade – no sweat, plenty of room left on my hard drive. I MUST replace my PC because the RAM is maxed out – guess what I'm going to do – buy a Mac mini and load Windows on it along with the Mac OS.

My machines are roughly the same age – and frankly – they cost about the same when I take the laptop monitor and all the add-ons plus the RAM and balance it against the PC's. In fact the PC's cost a lot more – and frankly – no friends they're not AS customizable. Not sure where PC users get the customization stuff from – but just try customizing a Dell PC and see what happens to support. Furthermore – take your chances.

Sincerely – the Dual Boot Whiner.

I love and despise both of these systems (yet I have them both).

It is what is. They are what they are. Nothing right, nothing wrong.

We have bigger things to worry about. Have you washed your hands lately?

H1N1

I don't like Apple. Think they are overpriced, overrated, and way too smug. But geez, Microsoft, could you possibly be any more stereotypical?

Buy a Linux, Mac, and Windows box. then compare the three of them yourself. This is what I plan to do next year. Then I can see first hand which of them creates the biggest mess. Worse to fix, and bad to keep up. Plus my gripes will be more on target when it comes to the brand, and hopefully considered more worthy. I can't say much though for hardware, and software nightmares that may occur.

Maybe it all depends on what you use your system for. I have both a pc and a mac and I use the mac most of the time. I've straightened out all of the Vista problems on my PC by getting rid of the OEM version (HP) of Vista and installing MS Vista without HP's add-ons. I also had a lot of problems with Norton 360 which I no longer have now that I have changed to another antivirus software. The PC does a lot without problems now that I no longer all the garbageware that comes with OEM versions of Vista. But, I use my Mac most of the time because I've found the OS to be more intutitive and the experience more rewarding. I might not do everything, but it does most things well. For the rest, I go to the PC.

So some users got an error message from one of the versions of a major software release, and CNN immediately hypes this as "news" and calls the problem hell. Unfortunately this leads me to ponder whether quality control is more of an issue at CNN than at Microsoft.

Windows, when you know how to operate it correctly, is a great platform. Similarly, Macs have a great record. In the end, it doesn't matter except but to a few very silly people that're all making more money than *you* by selling you on the 'fact' that one brand is 'better' than another. If I'm a video editor, I'm going to use a Mac due to the amount of production software and hardware out there expressly for that purpose. If I'm a gamer, I'm going to go PC/Ubuntu for precisely the same reason. Watching people bicker about which is 'better' is just amusing Steve Jobs' and Bill Gates' respective pocketbooks.

Why the competition? MS users call MAC users stupid for not being savvy on being techies (yet stable, predictable)?

MAC'ies calling MS'ers stupid for having machines that are extremely customizable (yet touchie)?

Fords (stable, predictable), Chevys (custom, touchie).

As Oprah would say, "Get over it! You like what you like."

I have both. They both have problems. They both have Greatness! Depends on how you use them.

"Hokey Smokes, BullWinkle! And we thought Vietnam was a WAR!!!"

"Sorry Rocky, this is much more STUPID!!!"

"Techie Intelligence (or lack there-of)". . . . . Contridiction in Terms.

Give a neighbor a bowl of soup, build a porch, or mow their lawn. It's more fruitful. We do.

I suppose some people had trouble. But I got the digital download Windows 7 32 bit Professional from Microsoft for $29.00 and had no problems whatsoever upgrading. It was fast and flawless. A friend did hers from Vista and another from the beta version of Windows 7 and they had no trouble also. I haven't heard of any problems so far at my school?

If you do not know anything about using computers and your idea of upgrading is to buy a new computer every couple of years then a Mac would be perfect. Have been using the Win7 beta & pre-release since they came out with only minor problems, the main problem that Vista had was some of the bloat-ware that came with it, along with the large kernal size. If you do a clean install you will not have any problems with Vista or Win 7, about the only software that I had trouble running was some old 16 bit software that I used on Win 95B, The key to running older software on Vista or Win7 without Xp compatibility is after installing the software go to the directory with the exe files change the compatibility properties to a earlier version of windows and possibly adding the 'run as administrator' selection if needed.

1. Everyone is like MAC has less viruses, you guys fail to realize the exact reason. It is not because windows writes horrible code. As someone mentioned, the security things windows has always had MAC is just now getting to have them. Apple computers have a small market share, no hacker wants to spend their time and effort to create viruses and spyware for them. Heck companies use windows systems, seems like windows systems are much more worthwhile to attack. Windows 7 beats the newest MAC OS in security, it has been proven.

Many people try to write viruses for mac but they don't work. And just because apple doesn't have as many customers doesn't mean there aren't many people trying to write viruses for them.

2. Windows 7 is a whole new OS based on a different kernel. For those who don't understand that, basically the foundation of windows 7 is so different from XP, you can't do a simple upgrade. Windows Vista, was crap yes, but trust me windows 7 is amazing. I beta tested and it was already a great OS, even with all the bugs.

Sounds all too familiar…Windows Vista anyone? "A great operating system." But it was very buggy. I like when my operating system works.

3. MAC has its bugs so all those who say they are flawless are dumb.

MAC has a few bugs. But compared to the list of PC's bugs that list is nothing in comparison.

4. MAC is so specific. Remember windows has to be more compatible for varying setups. You can't buy a MAC OS by itself. Microsoft only makes the software, and then companies like Dell, HP, or people like me who build their own computers install microsoft. It is a lot easier if you have control of the hardware and the OS.

Go to best buy. Go to the software section and ask an employee where the mac OS is he'll be glad to point it out to you then just bring it to the register pay and you now have a just mac OS.

5. MAC is based off an open source OS, that I have installed on all my computers. Its called UNIX or LINUX, which are free. MAC honestly started out adding a gui interface over it to make it more user friendly.

To be quite honest. Vista tried making vista alot more mac like. Windows Aero and such.

Please get your facts straight before posting. I know you're a computer genius so that shouldn't be hard for you.

To David in San Diego.

You can buy the MAC OS and install it yourself. It is not necessary to buy a new mac when you decide to upgrade your operating system.

I run Adobe InDesign on a pc running XP pro. It crashes on a daily basis. When working on the same file with my MacBook Pro I get zero crashes, quicker launch time and no stalls while working on the file.

Not a computer expert. Just a designer who has a PC and a Mac and sees the difference.

The author did not a do a great job explaining what this was. As a current law student, I received an email a few weeks ago advertising this cheap OS upgrade. I assume MANY students received this email. All of you are correct in saying this is not a Windows 7 issue, but both the email and link attached made it look like this was a deal from Microsoft. As a student, you get many large discounts on software (for instance I received Microsoft Office for free), so I can see how you wouldn't initially be suspicious of this. Personally, I am happy I ran across this article because I was planning on letting a friend use my cheap Windows 7 upgrade. I myself, thank god, am a Mac user.

Wow, there are a lot of hyper-sensitive, defensive pc users commenting here. I'll say this: 1. it makes for fun reading after a hard day at work; and 2. Schadenfreude is an underrated emotion.

I don't think "everybody" is saying Mac is better than a PC. As the PC owners far outnumber the Mac owners. I use both computers, and I prefer the Mac. The Mac is more stable, easier to use, doesn't need re-starting every so often. The Mac doesn't need a full re-install of the operating system as often as the PC. I agree with the person who said you have to know what you are doing with a PC and don't put crap on it. I agree. PC is still a pain for virus protection and spyware protection. You get a faster computer for less money with the PC, however the OS just isn't as good as Mac OS.

I had the unpacking error and can see how it would be very confusing to many. Even though you get the message "We are unable to create or save new files in the folder in which this application was downloaded" the files are indeed extracted successfully to the 'expandedSetup' folder. You can then create a bootable disc in all manner of ways; all you have to do is google. I'll admit I would have preferred an ISO download though.

Students should have known going into this that you can't upgrade Vista 32-Bit (x86) to Win 7 64-Bit but must do a clean install. It's not as if this information was hidden.

Windows 7 Student Edition downloaded fine for me. I love how out of the thousands of people that downloaded it only about 500 hundred actually called with problems and so the media writes the entire system off as being "hellish"! Of course there will be problems at first, there is no such thing as a flawless system when it launches.

Remodeling a home requires blood, sweat and tears. Installing Windows is like remodeling a home after an 8.0 earthquake. Sweating blood is a good cleansing process, at least I read on some Microsoft help screen.

Great idea! Why don't we all upgrade to Windows 7 on Halloween earlier in the day? We'll impress trick-or-treaters when we answer our front doors following the ordeal, and they’ll just love seeing our guts spilling out.

The winners in all this back and forth fight between Mac and Microsoft is us. No two OS systems is superior to the other, they both have flaws.

I use mac and windows and both worlds are great as long as you know what the hell you are doing and not install crap you're not supposed to. True, XP blows out Vista and Windows 7 seems like a solution and so far so good. Sharper look and features.

Just know what the hell you're doing with your computer MAC or PC.

Advertisements are meant to sell you crap and no commercial will mention anything negative about their own product, but will point out all negatives about everything else. But then again everyone is a freaking expert. MAC or PC… they both make our live easier or crazier.

I used Ubuntu Linux to change two paperweights (because of windows registry errors, etc.) into functional laptops again. Don't buy Win 7 or Mac OS, just get Linux or open BSD for free.

So may people here say since they don't like Windows they own a Apple Mac, like there is no other choice. PC's are much cheaper than Mac's, and you can install Ubuntu on them for free. Ubuntu works better than a Mac or Windows, so why not get the best OS and save a lot of money at the same time?

As of right now I have no interest in Windows 7 but I will say this..I've had Macs (first an Apple) and I've had PC's for twenty years and there is NO way I could survive with just a Mac. There is too much that a Mac simply can not do so I will always have one of each, but if I had to have just one it would be a PC and I am a photographer.

BTW, I've had several issue with Apple/Mac as well. From the absurd (the power button got stuck in the off position) to freezing. It is NOT immune. Give them credit though for creating the image that they are.

It's obvious that this is a vendor issue. Didn't the vendor actually test the download process at any time before it went live?
This is a pretty big screw up for Microsoft when they really need a smooth and successful launch. Someone should shoot the 'Download Squad' for even suggesting the the archane work around! Burnable ISO? I'm sure everyone knows what that is!

Simple. You get what you pay for, why would this be any different?

Actually, the Windows 7 kernel and driver structure is practically identical to the Vista kernel/driver structure, primarily so that users won't get bitten by issues with various peripherals like they did with Vista.

The security "already part of Windows" actually refers to the Windows NT/Server operating systems. Windows XP had a large number of "malware/virus injection vectors", which Vista closed at the expense of a positive user experience. There's really nothing wrong with running Windows as long as you are careful and willing to put a bit of effort into working out the occasional odd problem.

Being that Mac only has to run on ONE platform, their OS should have ZERO defects, but this is not the case. If MS and Unix can run on any platform without major issues, I’d say those OSes are more robust and versatile. Maybe Apple should point that out in their ads. But they don’t. They tend to gloss over the fact that they’ve switched processor platforms 3 times in the last 20 years, but some basic programs written for DOS will still run on a PC. At least Windows did not leave their current users behind when moving to the next OS like Apple does. Heck, their service packs that they charge for seem to do that.

Okay reading all these comments make me laugh. Nancy in Menifee, CA. I laugh at you for laughing at people that have a PC. I have had a computer running windows all my life. Hell I have built my own computer and put windows on it, never had a single problem. I don't understand how people have problems.

1. Everyone is like MAC has less viruses, you guys fail to realize the exact reason. It is not because windows writes horrible code. As someone mentioned, the security things windows has always had MAC is just now getting to have them. Apple computers have a small market share, no hacker wants to spend their time and effort to create viruses and spyware for them. Heck companies use windows systems, seems like windows systems are much more worthwhile to attack. Windows 7 beats the newest MAC OS in security, it has been proven.

2. Windows 7 is a whole new OS based on a different kernel. For those who don't understand that, basically the foundation of windows 7 is so different from XP, you can't do a simple upgrade. Windows Vista, was crap yes, but trust me windows 7 is amazing. I beta tested and it was already a great OS, even with all the bugs.

3. MAC has its bugs so all those who say they are flawless are dumb.

4. MAC is so specific. Remember windows has to be more compatible for varying setups. You can't buy a MAC OS by itself. Microsoft only makes the software, and then companies like Dell, HP, or people like me who build their own computers install microsoft. It is a lot easier if you have control of the hardware and the OS.

5. MAC is based off an open source OS, that I have installed on all my computers. Its called UNIX or LINUX, which are free. MAC honestly started out adding a gui interface over it to make it more user friendly.

I can go on some more. But will not. Basically for all those MAC fanboys/fangirls, before you start saying crap not your stuff. I am pretty sure people that are trashing windows and making MAC seem flawless, don't know computers.

In summary, MAC has a much easier life than windows hence why it seems so smooth. Smaller market share, smaller target = less attacks. And you can't get a separate MAC OS and install it yourself. You must buy an apple to get the MAC OS. Windows has zero control over hardware their OS is run on. Keep on gaining market share MAC, and lets see how things go for you.

That's why when Vista crashed on my laptop, I upgraded to Ubuntu. I didn't have to buy a new system and it works perfectly.

CNN has hit an all-time low with this one.
- This is not a problem with MS
- This not a problem with Win7
- This does not effect 99% of the customers
- This is not even a major problem.

This is a problem with one of its distributors (DigitalRiver), which effects one of the Win7 editions.

Clearly, the author is a mac fanboi and CNN is to blame for FOX-'views' like tactics.

My college daughter replaced a Sony Vaio with Vista, which she hated, with a Mac and she is thrilled with it. A friend says her Sony Vaio is a paperweight since she got a Mac several years ago. Must be something to those commercials.

wow, I post something showing Vista/XP in a good light vs Mac and my post is deleted within 10 mins.

fair and balanced…

ex ped: Nobody deleted your post.

FYI, OS X had over 5 times the number of flaws and security holes as Windows XP and Windows Vista combined….at the time of Vista's release.

How can that be possible?? Everyone with a mac on this blog is saying the exact opposite????

Imagine what you find out when you actually get information from third party sources.

Read more:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758

Yes please do buy a Mac if you think this "MS problem" is really a significant issue, that way you will at least be paying for your ignorance out of pocket.

Of course, half the people on here probably also believe the Iphone was the first 3G phone (My HTC Apache had it 3+ years earlier).

I installed Windows 7 on 13 PC's over the weekend, with 10 of them being digital downloads. No errors or problems and all completed in under 20 minutes…and OMG…everything worked on the first boot…how did that happen!!! :rolleyes:

It will truly be hilarious when hackers turn their attention to writing viri for Macs…sadly I don't think Mac will ever have the market share to make that worthwhile to said hackers, as they have even less share than they did 15 years ago…wow…

In conclusion, please keep blindly following the Apple PR campaign like mindless sheep…ignorance after all…is bliss.

I went out and bought a MAC. Tried to upload Windows 7 and my computer crashed. Tech wanted 250 to get it running without windows 7.

maddawg,
I'm thinking you and the rest of the kindergardeners have been eating just a bit too much paste.

You stick with your PC and I'll stick with my mac. My mac will help me get my work done and you can bitch about why your PC is slow and requires constant reboots instead of it helping you get your work done.

I hope you get a chance to read this before your next BSOD.

Considering that only 5% of computers being used are Mac's, it stands to reason that you will hear more about PCs. I have used a Mac at work for 5 yrs and although there are some things I really like about it, there are others that drive me CRAZY — I would never use the Mac if I didn't have to. We keep a PC in the office for all the things that don't work on the Mac. We couldn't do business without the PC on hand.

Shuuuuushhhh…. I suggest that all Mac users stop educating 'PC' people on the virtues and superior performance of Mac's… Mainly because as Apple keeps taking a larger and larger part of the market, it starts to become worthwhile for all those little numb-nut-no-dick windows based hackers, who sit there tweaking out on Crystal Meth and trying to come up with yet another virus to infect their fellow PC users with, to turn their pathetic and negative attentions onto Mac users instead… … At the moment there are millions of PC users out there running interference for all us 'poor uninformed' Mac users… Why bother with us Mac users when they have a much easier target out there already? … Personally, I'd like it to stay this way… If the PC users want to spend half their time on the phone with some PC tech (who could possibly be the hacker who unleashed the latest virus anyway) and want to spend all that time, frustration and money on a system that isn't as good even when it IS working, that's fine by me… …. I wonder how many PC techs would but looking for new employment if Windows had the reliability record of Apple? … … The more PC users that realize what a self-serving self-perpetuating 'con' the whole MS system is, the more Mac's get purchased anyway… It's like the medical industry… Your doctor doesn't make any money if you don't get sick… Maybe that why Mac's cost (slightly) more, because Windows knows it's going to be getting a lot more of the PC buyers money down the road so they can correct things that should have continued to work correctly in the first place.

I followed the following steps to upgrade from 32 bit Vista to 64 bit Digital River Windows 7 download.

1. Installed 64 bit beta version of Windows 7 from cd. Luckily I had burned an iso of the beta version of 64 bit windows 7 a few months ago which I still had on disc.

2. Downloaded Windows 7 64 bit professional upgrade from Digital River to desktop. right click, view properties, make sure read only isn't checked, selected "run as administrator".

3. At this point Setup 1, Setup 2, and Windows 7 file are downloaded to desktop. Right click on all of them, make sure read only is not checked. Right click on windows 7 file on desktop, navigate to page with compatibility mode, select run in "Windows XP Service Pack 2 compatibility mode" and check "run as administrator". Now unpack will be successful. (Prior to this I would always get an error when trying to unpack). Any file with the option select windows xp service pack 2 compatibility mode.

4. After unpack is successful, go to expanded setup folder, right click on folder and uncheck read only, select ok. Now run Windows 7 setup from within the folder as administrator. Select custom install and it will work.

Prior to this success I had download the file 7 times over 3 days, burned iso, ran in vista compatibility mode, xp service pack 3 comp mode, as admin, etc. The method above was the only way I could get it to work.

i will never go back to pc. i have a mac household and we love them. i just laugh at the people who have pc's and have nothing but problems. i don't worry about that. even the upgrade to mac's snow leopard was simple. no muss no fuss. thank you mac. you have made my life so much simpler with your easy to use systems.

Its hard to imagine anyone sticking with MS-constant crisis of one sort or another. I switched several years ago to Apple after living through hell with Vista. No one who switches would ever go back.

I find this whole thing quite funny. MACs are more stable and do not have the viral issues that PCs do. They cost more and are now using the same technology that PC users have been using for some time. At this point the only difference between a MAC and PC is the OS.

I am running Windows 7 64 Ultimate. I have had no issues what so ever. Like many have mentioned, DO NOT UPGRADE! Do a clean install and it will be fine.

The viral issues will always be there, not because Microsoft can't code very well, but because if I'm going to sit and write malware or a virus, I'm going to hit the largest population of users. Which are PC users. If/when MAC ever becomes the dominate force and passes PCs, expect people to find a way to do the same for MACs.

Don't get me wrong, I love MACs but I am not going to spend 2x the price for a MAC when I can build my own PC that runs better for half the price.

The gaming industry is what is pushing technology. Bigger, faster, more FPS, more cores. Since very few games are coded for MACs, the technology push just isn't there. Apple needs to understand that and use what I consider to be the best OS in the market feeds the high end systems.

Just my 2 cents.

Fools. Look at you, arguing product details and public perception. You're all victims of marketing, and your performing free public relations services for your respective product lines. And YOU PAY THEM your money. It's funny in this day and age how emotional people get over brands. The day I feel sincere anger over someone insulting a company or brand name will be a sad day indeed.

Hilarious…buy a mac. I still have my Windows XP pc also, would never upgrade to a new Windows product after hearing what a joke/disaster Vista is/was.

Considering the level of variation that windows needs to deal with as opposed to mac, it's a miracle their installs go as well as they do. A bad installer package can happen.

My most recent mac upgrade was not without it's troubles either. Took 6 hours to upgrade to Mac OS 10.6, and not because of a bad installer package, but just a bad installer… How their installer forgot my macbook's backlight is beyond me, and in my research, it wasn't just me experiencing the problem. Pretty hard to excuse when apple controls all their hardware configurations.

Typical Microsoft. The worst operating system with the most glitches and the greatest number of crashes.

Great, another piece of crap article aimed at starting yet ANOTHER Apple vs. PC argument. I highly doubt a silly little install issue is going to send ANY students running away from their OS to the nearest Apple store. Way to underestimate the intelligence of our youth while overestimating their pocketbooks and glorifying one brand over another. *rolls eyes*

Actually that fix isn't so bad. I can do all that in <3 minutes.

This also seems like a case of you get what you pay for.

Normally, I don't weigh in on these comment threads. First off, I like Apple and some of their products (yes, I have an iPod and even had the first Mac). However, here are some points I would like to make as I am getting really tired of the whole Apple fanboy/girl-schtick.

1) Biggest comment is on the stability of Apple OS. Does anyone remember the 90's? Apple OS was a piece of s**t just like Windows. They crashed equally as bad. Now, fast forward… After Steve Jobs was canned, he started NeXT. And all he did was take the underpinnings of UNIX (and other UNIX implementations) and use that for his 'new' OS NeXT which is the basis of the MacOS. And again, all Apple did was put a pretty GUI on it. So IF any of you fanboy/girls want to give kudos to a stable OS, give it to the open source community.

2) Bugs… I think it is really lame when people talk about the bug-free Mac OS. Here's one: http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=27403. Go to the Apple website and I am sure you can find more on their customer support pages.

3) As Robert in SLC pointed out, Apple LEFT its touted PowerPC architecture because the Intel processors were better at scaling. Enough said.

4) Remember the Apple campaign: "Think Different"? Apple only runs on one supported platform – it's own. Windows and Linux/Unix are required to run on different platforms from various vendors on top of the do-it-yourselfers. Apple has taken the easy approach by only supporting one platform while Windows and Linux/Unix has to support multiple platforms. It makes it that much harder to build. As a result, you have MORE choice running either Windows or Linux/Unix. Outside of adding stickers or painting your beloved Apple computer, you are pretty much stuck to what Steve thinks is cool.

"Unzip and move oscdimg.exe to your System32 directory"

"In Vista you do this by typing 'cmd' into your 'Start Menu' and hitting ctrl+shift+enter…"

These are the type of instruction I have not needed to read or follow ever since I bought my first Mac ten years ago, I can't believe people are still doing that!!

It is not a question of MAC vs. PC it is a question of products for humans vs. products for teenagers with too much time in their hands!

This why I will not be upgrading to Windows 7. Vista was enough for me.
Just like the Apples advertisement, Windows 7 can not be trusted. Wake up Microsoft, once you lose your customer's trust, you are history. Take a look at the US auto junk makers.

Macs have problems just like PCs/windows. Just google Mac OS X, Snow Leopard, and trouble, crash, problem, etc… there is no lack of hits.

Also, to those who say Macs never had problems, especially the new recruits, I was a Mac tech long ago and have seen my share of the “Sad Mac”, bad chords, bombs, etc on the old hardware. Heck, googling “sad mac” I just found out they now use that on iPods with problems.

I bought a Mac ten years ago and NEVER EVER looked back. Seamless installations, no need for customer support, humane interfaces, no need for tech-nobull discussions, no anxious searches for answers in the internet, NO VIRUSES, NO SPYWARE!!!

With the exception of those who love to get under the hood of their PCs to find meaning in life, the rest of the PC consumers out there are simply wasting their time and money on a product that's tragically failed.

No wonder Apple just had its mos profitable quarter ever!

People are finally catching up!

Some of the avid Mac users here seem to forget that when Apple, the only hardware provider of the Mac and OS X, switched from the 68000 based processor to the Power PC based processor and then to the Intel based processor, a lot of people were left with computers that were effectively obsolete. Windows, on the other hand, has a high probability to run older versions of the OS and software on older PCs with out issue. The “I’m a Mac, I’m a PC” ad conveniently forgot this fact.

Also, this from eWeek on security in Windows and Mac – http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Windows-7-Security-Story-May-Appeal-to-Enterprises-549002/ –

"While it's admirable that Apple is improving their security model, it is far from innovative," he said. "The facts show that when it comes to security features, Apple is just adding features into 'Snow Leopard' now that have been part of Windows for years; for example, DEP (data execution prevention) and the on-by-default firewall shipped almost five years ago with Windows XP SP2 [Service Pack 2], and ASLR (address space load randomization) was first released over two years ago with Windows Vista. All of these features are included in Windows 7."
So there goes the MS only copies Mac argument.
And from the same article, "Windows 7 is a definite security improvement over XP and it will definitely decrease the Windows desktop attack surface," Pescatore said. "But Windows still has to run on an infinite variety of hardware and still has to maintain compatibility with huge numbers of third-party apps—problems the Mac OS really has never had to deal with. So, Windows will always have unique security challenges."
So when Mac decides to open up to and can run on multiple hardware vendor’s computers and third party apps, let’s see how they do.

Let the problems begin.

Thank you Microsoft for coming up with Windows 7… …Yet another crappy, unstable, virus vulnerable platform with more back door security issues than a gay hooker on a friday night… … The more people who continue to use ANY of Microsoft's "platforms" the less 'Windows' hackers concentrate their efforts on screwing with other more reliable and stable platforms like Mac's… … I've been using a Mac for 16 years now and I've never had a crash or a virus… I am fully familiar with Windows XP etc. and there just is no comparison when it comes to reliability and logical ergonomic ease of use between Mac and Windows… … BUY A MAC!!!

maddawg, your BLIND overly emotional hatred of not only Mac but Mac users blew up your spot, and revealed your ignorance. Repeating "lemming iTards" over and over… I could almost see the viens popping out of your forehead. Calm down , dude.

I don't claim to know much in the tech side of things, but I know enough and have moved away from PC years ago for a Mac. I haven't had ONE problem with my "system" in 3 years. This after 10 years of random 3 hour long cust service calls every other month with my PC. Now there may be things that you can do with a PC that you can't with a Mac, but just to say this common phrase one more time… "most people don't ever need to have access to those areas of their computer".

In any case, I've know many high level Developers and Programmers (I'm a IT Recruiter btw) …and NOT ONCE have I heard someone say, "damn.. My Mac has not allowed me to do this or that… I wish I had this on my PC." It may happen here and there… but with easily fixable things. The trade off is unbelievably unbalanced and Mac is clearly the more enjoyable Cpu to use.

Imagine the thousands, NO MILLIONS of people who've have to call friends and younger family members over to their homes to fix these ridiculous PC OS issues on these overly complicated Windows systems.

PC's set you up to fail, while Mac wants you to drive your car for years and years, without barely ever needing to see a mechanic.

I have a life away from my computer desk at home and I'm through having some company taking away my time and fun. Not everybody gets off on tinkering with computers like an old car, maddawg.

Don't be such a classic nerd and try to understand that.

CNN just lost a lot of my respect…

Why would they allow MS related… reporting (?) be published under the Apple 2.0 blog? I get free speech, but this is in the same camp as Pro-Life people standing outside Planned Parenthood and physically abusing patrons.

My own quick search has given me the suspicion that, once again, you are just sensationalizing a relatively small issue. Most I saw was 2600 questions about it (and as its a student issue, you can bet everyone who had the problem complained) and I can't tell if those questions were all unique users. Even if it was 5000 I wouldn't be worried.

"hell" == can't install and need to get a refund?

Really? Hyperbole much? I was expecting lost data, unresponsive systems.

Don't get me wrong. When 7 was supposed to be the game saver for the bad taste Vista left in most mouths, this is a huge, huge fail and someone is walking around with a lot of egg on their face.

But "Hell"??? Come on. "Didn't work" is frustration or something. "Hell" is the place authors like this who gin up every headline are gonna end up.

I Just love how you Mac Purists seem to think your Beloved Mac is somehow superior to anything out on the market.

In Comparison to a Windows Box of any kind, you are right, and it is superior, Software wise ONLY.

Compared to Linux, Irix, HPUX, BSD, and all the predecessors in the *nix world, its just another slice of the same pie, As its based on NeXT and is Unix Certified.

The interface is simply designed for morons

And by the way Mac Purists, incase you forgot to read it, your MacBookPro sporting the Intel core2Duo cpu, is just another clunker PC, the hardware is the EXACT SAME now, Unless you really did think Intel would make you your own special chip, perhaps with a cute little apple on it.

It does not do well for your argument stating Mac users are smarter, when they pay 10 times the hardware cost for the same thing the Windows users do when they buy a Dell, Stop making yourself look stupid and do a little research before you open your mouth only to insert your foot.

Long Live the Linux and Unix world, that runs 98% of the systems you morons depend on for day to day spamming of your idiot ways.

I agree, Red.

You are retarded…

I am retarded for waisting/spending my time reading any of this. All opinions. Garbage.

I've been using Win7 RC on a 5 year old, no name laptop for five months now. I did have XP on the drive (and it crashed because of video issues or virtual memory problems).

Win7 has been running flawlessly, period. No driver issues, no crashes, most stable os I have ever tried.

Well, not here to push architecture or an OS. As a systems administrator for (input airplane name here), I have supported many OS's over the years, and continue to. I still run and support VAX VMS, one of the finest hardware/software platforms STILL around. I also run & support Solaris, Unix, Linux, MS Server 03, Ubuntu, XP, and a handful of proprietary systems. They all have their ups and downs. On the homefront, I have several systems at home and run, primarily, Windows Vista (both 32 and 64). I also have a Mac which is great as well. And I can say that I spent more money on my Windows (Gateway) system than my Mac as I am not one of those typical $400 system purchasers. I have built from the ground up many systems…it is too costly to do that today but I still mod my systems, certainly video and memory. Why do corporations continue to purchase mainly Windows systems? Cost. You still get a lot of bang for your buck (with a PC). But if you have enough bucks, a MAC just can't be beat. TCO – yeah, that counts for a lot. I spend quite a bit of time fixing non-savy people's sytems and often wonder how many more individuals are out there with failed systems, or poorly working systems. It doesn't take much with a Windows box to download utilities, tools, games, NORTON (yeah, you PC users know this!!!) and see (or not) what remains left on your system, in your registry. I spend a LOT of time cleaning systems, not talking defrag either. Unix, awesome…and fills the need (to fix it) for every techie. Linux, STILL not ready for prime time (techies are fine…but would NEVER hand off my uBuntu sys to a friend or relative that didn't understand how to use command line or such. But my unix boxes (and I have 40-50) run so stable that I don't spend 10 hours a year on fixing issues. I spend EVEN LESS on my VAX (yeah, the predecessor to your Windows XP – written by the same team for VMS).
Anyway, this argument will never end. Like anything you buy, you will defend it to the end…until you buy something better…whichever that is.

"I think all the MS and Apple fanboys should wage war on each other…real, bloody war. If you feel so strongly about it that you have to take every opportunity to lambast the "other side" and make generalized, degrading comments then you should establish a battlefield and beat the snot out of each other. Really go for it. Because you're right, whatever computer operating system you chose to purchase IS the best one, and there can be only one! So take arms dorks of the world and unite to save humanity from the evil "other" operating system. Because there is nothing more important in the world to be worried about right now."

Posted By Steve, Fort Lauderdale, FL: October 26, 2009 7:25 AM

that war would obviously be won by the pc users, because of all those bloody violent video games that are ummmm not on the mac. unless of course your using bootcamp which is apple's way of admitting its OS is so bad it has to let you use windows too.

my son got the 64-bit version of windows 7 pro and had no issues at all installing the program but he did a clean install.. updates never work(ed) well in the past. it is a shame this happened but you never know what you are getting with these new software..

@Draven & maddawg:

I've used the following computer systems and/or OSes: IBM mainframe, PDP-8, PDP-11, Dec Vax, Apollo workstations, PC-DOS, MS-DOS, DR-DOS, BSD Unix, SYSV Unix, Windows 1.0 through Windows XP, Mac OS 1.0 through OS 10.5, RedHat Linux, Suse Linux, and a couple of Japanese OSes that you've never heard of. As a VLSI designer, I designed 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit, and 64-bit microcomputers and microcontrollers. I've programmed in assembly language (various processors, like X86, 68K, PPC), Fortran, C, C++, Java, Perl, Objective C, Tcl/Tk, and Python. I've written everything from applications to device drivers to microprocessor microcode.

Oh, and I use Macs exclusively at home. I have no choice but to use Windows at work.

Draven characterizes Mac users as people who "don't seem to be aware of the real issues", as "people who know nothing about computers", while "maddawg" calls Mac users "iTards".

This is simply not true. Almost all of the people that I know who like Macs better than Windows have used both systems. Yet almost all of the people I know that like Windows better than Macs have ONLY used Windows and have never actually used a Mac. On that point alone, Mac users tend to be MORE knowledgeable about computer systems than people who have never used a Mac. I challenge Draven and maddawg to take a similar poll of your friends to ask them how many systems they have actually used for more than a week. I've used literally dozens of computer systems of all types, and prefer Macs.

Draven also says that "In Windows, if you suffer a crash, you simply restart. In Leopard, if you suffer a system crash, you risk having to install the ENTIRE OPERATING SYSTEM!" Really? What do you base your opinion on, Draven? In all the years since OS 10.0 and all the way up to 10.5, I've had only one major crash on any of the Macs at home, and I just rebooted and things were fine. I did have a crash on a Motorola StarMax clone running system 9, but that turned out to be a faulty cache memory on the system board, which Motorola fixed for free under warranty. Not really the fault of Mac OS. On the other hand, in only three years I have had two blue screens of death on my work PC running XP. In short, your claims don't reflect the reality of my experience or the experience of anyone that I know.

The fact of the matter is that there are many reasons that systems crash. Hard drives fail; memories fail; power supplies and batteries fail. All of these can lead to corruption of critical data in memory and/or on the hard drive, which can cause systems to crash so hard that the OS needs to be reinstalled. However, only on Windows systems have I seen corruption of critical data caused by the OS itself. It is THIS difference, Draven, that is the real issue here.

Inferior hardware? Hardly. Granny-loving O.S.? Maybe, but so what? Only someone with a Windows fan-boy mindset would consider ease of use and reliability to be a negative thing. Really, Draven? The fact that my Granny could use Mac OS without a problem is bad? What a sick and twisted person you are. Ridiculous and insulting price? What's ridiculous about paying extra money for extra quality? (And guess, what? It's not that much more money.) Zero room for upgrades? What in the world are you talking about? Why don't you go out and actually try a MAC for a year before you mindlessly spew the standard MS FUD?

Draven says "The experts will stick with a PC, which is the most versatile and powerful computer you can possibly buy, with a MUCH greater lifespan than any dead-end Mac will allow for." I laughed out loud at this one — my company has an entire room that holds nothing but obsolete PCs that cannot support the latest version of Windows. And by "obsolete", I mean PCs that are more than 3 years old. Yep, a PC purchased in 2005 cannot run Windows Vista. In contrast, my MacBook, which I bought in 2003, is still running strong with the latest Mac OS.

So… Draven and maddawg — go poll your friends, and let me know what you find out.

No problems here. After working with Mac's since 1985 and Windows since about 1993 Windows is still the more flexible platform. Argue all you want I am neither a Mac fan or a Win fan – they are both a toaster to me. I have very few problems with either of them. After being in IT for over 20 years I can tell you that Windows is less expensive from my experience. Mac’s crash just as often as Windows PC for generally the same reasons – and I can tell you that both hardly, if ever, crash at all these days. No bashing, these are just the facts from my perspective.
All of this media attention is just noise, buy what you would like to have or what works for you and move on. Dredging up ancient history about either OS is a waste of time and effort.

I edit audio and video on a PC and Mac and have come to the following conclusion:

PC's are for hobbists
Mac's are for professionals

if you buy a pc you buy a piece of crap. you're getting what you pay for. cheap machine, cheap price. i'd rather spend more for a quality, pretty, easy to use machine that makes life better with no viruses. you can even download a virus and not have it do anything. so cool eh?

Thank you DH22, my thoughts exactly. Its so amazing to see some people on here just tear into Windows, when in reality it works just as good as a Mac. I am the personal tech for so many windows systems and I never have to visit them and they are people who only know how to point and click to their programs. Seems that if all this were true I would be swamped with PC issues. I also run systems for a company and we hum along just fine and have so little desktop support that I pretty much could lay off the desktop tech and be just fine having server techs fill in if ever needed. We have 30 printers compared to 150 desktops and the printers are usually the only problems we ever have. So keep with the lies Mac faithful, you show your true arrogance and un-intelligence. Trying to con people over to your side is dirty business and many should be ashamed of the person they have become over an operating system. Truth first people.

Why would I expect accuracy from Fortune magazine? Make sure the expandedSetup folder is on your Desktop, then open the cmd prompt (elevated if in Vista or one of the Win7 betas) and paste in this:

oscdimg -bC:\Users\USERNAME\Desktop\expandedSetup\boot\etfsboot.com -h -u2 -m -lWIN_EN_DVD C:\Users\USERNAME\Desktop\expandedSetup\ C:\7.iso

Substitute your username for USERNAME and, if you wish, change the name of the iso from "7.ISO" to "WIN7.ISO" if desired.

This worked for me whereas the cmd line provided by this article was bogus.

These kids must be MAC users, shifting to use Windows 7.

There is always a learning guys. hahahaha

haha.. that's a pretty easy procedure. If you can't follow it buy a Mac for about $500-$1000 more and hope you never have to understand anything about how it works.

An upgrade path only MacGyver could love.

This problem is limited to students who took advantage of the $29 offer from digital river and who upgraded to 64bit windows from a 32 bit system and who downloaded the 3 gig file instead of spending a few more bucks on the disks. The files didn't unpack because it assumed a 64 bit system existed already.

The solutions were numerous, such as the one described in the article. Microsoft has also offered to have folks swap for the 32 bit download, and they can still order the disks and wait a few days.

The solution was posted almost imediately after the problem was recognized. It didn't hurt your computer; all that was lost (if you are frightened by the command line) was you had to wait a few days while you used your old operationg system. You had to do the unpacking on a working system so you hadn't wiped anything.

So a few users who paid very little for the upgrade couldn't upgrade the very day of the release. Sorry, but that doesn't seem like hell. Compare that the the success of the launch overall and this author clearly does a disservice.

I don't see why one would run for Mac. Some of those computers had the "gray circle of death" when trying to upgrade to snow leapard (computer became unusable); some deleted files when using the guest account (very serious); and many can't be upgraded because of the powerPC vs. intel issue. Not bashing Mac, but indicating some of those users went through a greater hell than the students who took up this offer.

How long did it take Apple to admit the guest user issue?

Note to Mark Engel, I havent had my money tied up for 9 years like you obviously have… It's been 6 months. Add the time factor in your equation and I've done a HELL of a lot better than you.

Is this for real?!? Who could possibly think all those convoluted steps are "simple" or "easy"??. "Download this thing and put it in here" then "type this crap here and type some other crap somewhere else", then "open one of these and copy and paste and wave your magic wand 4 times", and "Ta'da!", you just wasted 2 hours doing something that would've taken you about 2 minutes and ONE step on a Mac. Nice job! How do they expect anyone to want to go through all that BS? (Unless you're a hardcore techie, in which case you revel in long, convoluted processes on your clunky, lumbering PCs…)

MAC will never make it my table at work or home, period!!

MS hasn't changed.. like Vista, instead of, oh, FIXING the problem, here's your twelve step workaround that involves download of other software, a dvd drive, a flash drive, a swiss army knife, a lighter, two bags of w33d, 23 mini screwdrivers, a first aid kit, your soul, oh, and about 29 hours of your life that you're not getting back.

I want my Refund. I saw that People in the UK were sent a email stating that they would get a refund and be able to keep the software. I just want my refund from this whole mess. The was that they put this out is ridiculous.

"This was done to comply with some of the legislation that the EU threw at MS. There is a set of tools called Windows Live that includes Windows Live Mail as well as other useful apps and it's a simple download."

Oh great, now I have to spend time finding it on their website and downloading.

I am one of the students who had trouble with upgrading to 7. I really wanted to blame Microsoft. I feel, in the end, it was Digital Rivers fault and not MS. It was a corrupted file download through a faulty DL manager. Sorry, Microsoft, for blaming you.

That being said, I've used Windows for over fourteen years. I've used Linux for over a year now. Both OSs have a home with me and I love them dearly. You won't see a Mac or really an Apple product anywhere in my home.

Let me make this clear: It has nothing to do with the hardware or the OS. It looks nice and I'm sure I'd enjoy it. I cannot stand Mac people or their haughty flaming, thinking they're crap doesn't stink because they have an iPod, or iPhone, or how "Macs are better".

When Mac hits a higher market share you will see more viruses, more hardware interface issues, and more problems in general. When Apple tries to appeal to everybody and work with everything it'll look exactly like Microsoft.

What do you expect for $25.

the argument that PC's are better because they cost less is a somewhat legit reason to go with PC, but even on a tight budget I would definitely go with a Mac to avoid all the small headaches such as simple upgrades that seem to always happen with PC's. My friends often give presentations and i don't know how many times there was a crash or frozen program which prompted a reboot, while the MAC always comes through when needed most.

Mac's are just better…I still don't see how anyone can still refute that.

There is no money savings by purchasing a PC. My company has owned both systems for decades. We only use PC's to run cheap dedicated programs, and they still create 99% of our Computer System problems and maintenance costs.

By the time you load up a PC to match 1/2 of a Mac, it costs you twice as much!

Most of these pro PC comments come from the legions of people who make their living off of foolish PC purchasers, or people who have never owned both a PC and a Mac at the same time.

If you really hate someone, give them a PC, and just stand back and enjoy the laughs.

PC people, "get a Mac and get your life back!!!"

Can only be one??
On the contrary I rum both OSX and Windows on my machine, and routinely switch back and forth, depending on what I am doing. I will be adding Windows 7 soon, and believe it will be a real step up. My experincec is that, for dealing with corporate I use Windows, for the rest of my life it is OSX

WoW this was the EASIEST Microsoft upgrade ever. Windows 7 exceeds expectations, and then some. All the negative posters are probably Apple enthusiasts with nothing better to do. I will say this new OS is better than the most current apple OS which I am forced to use at work.

What fool would upgrade any OS; Mac, PC, Ubuntu? Clean install always – ask any IT Tech.

Worked fine for me and Windows 7 is awesome.

"Because you're right, whatever computer operating system you chose to purchase IS the best one, and there can be only one!"

Well said, Steve. When you consider just how virulent these arguments can be, it's not hard to see how changing a few of your words will reveal another "truth" of humanity …

Whatever religion you chose to believe IS the best one, and there can be only one!

Unfortunately, this mindset does in fact lead to "real, bloody war." If people are at each other's throats over which OS is best, what hope can there be for peaceful agreement over religious (not to mention political/ideological) differences?

So let's all try to make "one giant leap for mankind" and stop bickering over this ridiculous issue! 25 years of working with dozens of different platforms, operating systems, frameworks, and languages has shown that they ALL have niche advantages, and generic weaknesses.

It's a simple issue for us. We cannot afford a Mac. If they decide to start selling a machine for anything even remotely close to a PC I might consider it. And please don't quite TCO, I've calculated that and a MAC is at least double.

I am returning my 3 user upgrade because it is not an upgrade as I recognize it. For XP users, you have to export your settings to an external drive, make a clean install, import settings, then install all your programs from scratch.

I just type "apt-get upgrade" when I am ready to make the jump to the newest OS. Debian Linux is pretty tough.

I upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 7 (Professional version) on my machine. It was easy. The installation program will determine the best installation type for your system. After following the recommended instructions, I had no problems.
Windows 7 automatically downloaded and installed all required drivers (printer, video, audio, etc.). The machine has been running great.

The one from theultimatesteal.com worked just fine for my fiance. No problems at all.

"Hell" is a bit over the top. I thought maybe the students lost data or something. BTW, I'm a mac user.

Philips thoughts: I like to take digital rivers problems and blame them on Microsoft because I am not so truthful and kind of don't get how things actually work. You are a clown sir and keep trying because you come off to be so uneducated and more like a sheep. Baaaaah.

Who is maddawg REALLY? My money's on Pee-wee Herman.

Mac vs PC?

It all depends on what you are using it for and what kind of person you are. One is not better than the other.

However pay attention to who sides with what. You'll start to notice common personality traits.

For me it's very simple. Which one takes care of business and makes me the most money is the better one, FOR ME.

LAMO – All you guys need a life. Reading your rants are like needles in my eye. Why dont you get out from behind your pc and go live life!
Technology is evil

I really do not understand this debate, you are all arguing over something ridiculous. I have friends with mac's and friends with pc's I own a pc. People saying that mac is easier to use, well I agree, however it is not at all hard to use a pc. As far as issues with the os and upgrades, well I never had any issues never had a crash, and never had a problem installing software. They are both point and click, user friendly, and you all need to get over this debate.

"almost 18 gigs of space was freed up by the upgrade to snow leopard"
lol, windows installs in like 3 GB, while mac installs 18 GB of *extra* junk? wow.

Well my MAC can…..

Well my PC can….

Back and forth over two overpriced proprietary OS's.

I use Linux. The flavor I prefer runs acceptably on everything from a Pentium II upwards, and has better hardware recognition than any Windows system that I have ever used, from DOS and 3.1 onwards.

I have 3 Linux boxes running solely for the purpose of distributed computing, 2 of which have not had to be rebooted in the last 9 months. Would be hard to find a Windows or MAC aficionado that can make that claim about their computer.

For pretty much ANY PC or Mac software that exists, there is an acceptable Linux alternative, which is usually compatible with the main stream software it replaces.

I have watched the PC vs MAC war for years, bemused that someone will pay for software when there are so many outstanding FREE alternatives available.

We need Windows – otherwise, what would the scads of IT people do all day.

I think all the MS and Apple fanboys should wage war on each other…real, bloody war. If you feel so strongly about it that you have to take every opportunity to lambast the "other side" and make generalized, degrading comments then you should establish a battlefield and beat the snot out of each other. Really go for it. Because you're right, whatever computer operating system you chose to purchase IS the best one, and there can be only one! So take arms dorks of the world and unite to save humanity from the evil "other" operating system. Because there is nothing more important in the world to be worried about right now.

HUGE LOLs @ all you noobs that can't handle a simple operating system.
(it's not iTard simplistic like mac os which is made for iTards that can barely spell computer, but it is pretty simple)

and since when does being a college student mean you have any brains that work!?! lol…did you see how ez the fix is…..'take the files you're given and make your own ISO'….lmao..that was tough wasn't it?? hahahahahahaha

oooops, i forgot, for most of you iTards you have no idea what i just said….let me put it in nooby-mac-ease for you….

1) PUT THE DVD IN THE BURNER
2) BURN THE DOWNLOAD FILES INTO AN .ISO FILE

i'm still wondering how many lemmings still wont get the simplistic steps of such a simple fix to a simple problem…i'm betting it is most.

win 7 has its cool new features but it is basically Vista revamped….

don't fool yourselves, it is Vista revamped but then again…Vista rules!!!!
(well for the few, the proud, the competent of us, it does…for the rest of you lemming iTards, it was extrememly hard to handle, accept and deal with; kind of like most other areas in your life)

so the good news is, since it's vista revamped a little; the lemming iTards will still be in the dark but for those of us with a brain that actually works, it is dynamite!!!

bottom line, MS still rules the computer world and mac still has it's 'metrosexual', single digit percentage market share..
(at least the lemming iTards that dont mind showing the world they are iTards are still in the single digits!)

lets not get me wrong, macs have their place too…..lets see:

* kindergarten

hmmm…well i'm sure i'll think of more that the mac can do better, cheaper and faster than a PC but it may take awhile.

just remember, if you are the typical lemming iTard, PLEASE STAY with mac….they'll appreciate it and it will give the kindergarteners something to help you with!

Note to Rob Mazz, who is thrilled his MSFT shares went from under $20 six months ago to $28 today (a 34% gain): My APPL shares, which I bought in Oct 2000 for a split-adjusted price of $11.66/share, have gone up in the last six months from $125 to $205, a 64% gain. My total gain in APPL over nine years is 1,630%. Want to guess what I could have bought a share of MSFT for on the same day I bought my APPL in Oct 2000? $27.72.

"What an email program don't buy Windows 7 it doesn't come with one." (assuming they meant WANT)

This was done to comply with some of the legislation that the EU threw at MS. There is a set of tools called Windows Live that includes Windows Live Mail as well as other useful apps and it's a simple download.

Let's try to cut through the blather. This started more than 20 years ago, when Apple and Microsoft chose different business models.

Apple's model, like most at the time, prioritized engineering over marketing. This meant a closed system with only supervised participation by approved business partners. The advantages were reliability, manageable forward and backward compatibility, and, for the company, controllable near monopolistic pricing–for users who would put up with it. The disadvantages weren't even evident until Microsoft revolutionized the marketplace.

Apple also chose to be an industrial design innovator, and did that very well, but that wasn't what mainly differentiated it from Microsoft. It WAS what led many customers to put up with the pricing issues, keeping Apple alive during the marketing debacle that followed.

Microsoft innovated. They opened the marketplace to countless business partners by providing ready access to system information of the sort Apple kept proprietary. The advantage was an immediate giant boost in market share, broad selection of low priced hardware, and a staggeringly varied outpouring of software. This strategy was so effective in the marketplace that for years market watchers expected Apple's immanent demise–incorrectly as it turns out. The disadvantage of Microsoft's strategy, although always evident, has now come to the fore.

Engineering weaknesses inherent in the market-driven variability of the PC platform could hobble the Microsoft business model. As necessary innovation piles on innovation, it seems harder and harder for the PC community to sustain forward and backward compatibility. That perception is the sum and substance of Apple's recent devastating television advertising.

Step right up. Tortoise vs. hare. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Right now the tortoise is closing the gap. The question is what can the hare do to hold the lead, because this seems to be a race with no finish line in sight.

I am a tenured scientist at a major university. I am completely fluent in Unix, Linux, Windows, and OSX. I manage a lab full of machines running all of the above. I develop and program across these platforms. I'm responsible for making sure our grant money is spent efficiently on computing resources. I can use any machine I want, any OS I want, any time I want. Computers are central to my work. I guarantee I know more about any of these machines, operating systems, and the economics of running them than anyone on this discussion thread who is not a computer scientist.

My personal machine is a Macbook Pro. Most of our lab machines are Mac Pros, all dual boot.

Macs do not cost more than PCs, unless you think "cost" and "price" are the same thing, which suggests you need to re-take basic economics.

I have no ideological horse in this race. But to listen to these teenage fanboys knock the OSX ecosystem and Mac hardware as being for dummies, computer illiterates, and people with money to burn, time after time, when all the hard evidence says the exact opposite is true is getting old and tired. For the last 5 years or so, anyone in the serious business of buying powerful machines for development and research environments has known that the value lies entirely on the Apple side.

Hardware incompatibilities? What are you talking about? There is no peripheral for the PC ecosystem that does not exist in the Mac ecosystem. Do you mean I can't run OS X on every last laptop with a crusty old AMD chip in it? Because I can install OSX flawlessly, now, on nearly any Intel Core 2 machine out there. I just did it on a Dell 10V netbook. Took me 2 hours, worked like a charm, and everything functions perfectly.

No matter how much arrogant snarking you basement Warez pirates and small-time, low-skill programmers and hackers do, you're wrong.

Apple is gaining market share in every area of the market for a really good reason. Unfortunately, Windows 7 only confirms the long downward death spiral of Microsoft as a maker of a *reliable* and innovative OS that works better and does more than Windows.

Say the opposite all you like. You're just wrong. And the tide of consumer and professional preference is gradually turning to confirm that.

I'm sorry you only have $399 to spend on your computer, and that this makes you jealous of those of us who spend real money on serious machines that we need to do actual work. Go back to gaming in the basement and check in in 5 years when Apple has 60 percent of the installed OS base.

ex ped: The voice of reason. Not because I agree with him, but because he lays out his arguments in a calm and reasoned manner. We could all learn from his example. Thank you sir.

liars, touts, & shills oh my!@#$

Thank you, Not Mac. Your mastery of the English language is exactly what we've come to expect from MS sycophants. Not to mention your masterful debating skills.

To the airplane comment below:

If Macs ran an airplane –

It would run well, in fact a toddler could climb into the cockpit and press "go." Unfortunately, It could only control a handfull of cessnas and a couple learjets, and it would fly only to a select number of destinations including Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, and maybe London and Amsterdam. Its passengers would be mostly metrosexuals who's friends recommended Mac airlines because well… its just better.

If PC's ran an airplane –

It would control every aircraft from a helium filled mylar balloon to an Airbus A300, experimental aircraft, B52 and/or the space shuttle. Yes it would have glitches because of its broad target audience and highly complex operations, however the crews would be knowledgable enough to work around them rather easily. While some crashes are unavoidable; luckily, due to its large volume, these fatal crashes would make up a very teeny percentage of its user base – user error would be commonly found as the cause. It would fly any damn place you want, from the next town over to Mars, and its passengers would consist of people who actually matter.

It still amazes me that some "IT Professionals" laud mac while blasting PCs…then i'm reminded how easy it is to lie on the internet.

If you'll excuse me, I think I can hear my brazilian model girlfriend calling from my yacht.

okay something to hate. Poor release and planning in software programs. The sudden release of a product not ready yet happens by alot of companies. Microsoft keeps releasing things to early and so does Apple. Think of the grinch or the bully who stole your lunch money. Tired of thinking how to work around glitches as thats my money wasted and time.

First off I have used PC's for years, after switching to a Mac I will never go back to a PC
Second, Even though the Mac mouse looks like a one button mouse it works as a 2 button, it is just built smarter (except maybe the scroll wheel gums up alot) Now putting that aside Apple has just introduced their new wireless Magic Mouse which ships free with every new desktop.. Before you dis it, goto apple.com and watch the video on it. It's amazing.
Third, who ever wrote the comment about massive snow leopard upgrade issues, that was an out right lie
Fourth. neither OS is perfect but Mac is far superior , I will never buy another Windows box again, Apple is years beyond MS…

HAH Macs are just a steaming pile of user friendly garbage, user friendly only because there isn't any real software choices to screw up on the thing. And I just want to further rub it in when I say I bought a thousand shares of MSFT back about 6 months ago when it was under 20$ and now it has hit $28.02 at closing today because of Windows 7. Which means almost 10k in profit for me so far. Go team.

So far I've upgraded a half dozen Macs to Snow Leopard. All upgraded flawlessly, required only a couple clicks to answer a few questions, and took about half-an-hour each. Not only has every single one of these machine run faster after the upgrade, every single one of their hard drives had more space on it after the upgrades. In one case, almost 18 gigs of space was freed up by the upgrade. In only one case was the machine newer than one year old, most were two to three years old. Of course the machines are all capable and run Windows XP as well, which curious also runs better under Snow Leopard. I'm glad to hear the Windows 7 appears to have fixed many of the bigger issues that emerged in Vista, but Microsoft's arrogance continues to show itself in their sloppy behavior and arrogant responses to their customers. This is not only bad for Microsoft's customers, but given the state of our economy, bad for America.

For those who fear Leopard wipes out the data, read the instructions. Back up your data before installing the new OS. Well if you can't read that, stick to Windows.

Want Windows 7 professional for $29 then go throught the link below(Enjoy) :
http://store.digitalriver.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=AddItemToRequisition&SiteID=msshus&Locale=en_US&productID=161679100&quantity=1&resid=6zwKHAoBAkYAAAVvBs8AAAAX&rests=1256226044257

Open Source.
Reliable.
Highly Customizable.
Stable.
Adaptable.
FREE.
Ubuntu.
Get it now:
http://www.ubuntu.com/
"Nuff Said

people make mistakes.. relax people

What an email program don't buy Windows 7 it doesn't come with one.

1. I've never seen a Mac "service pack"
2. I paid a little more, now I get in and GO! No hassles, no service packs, no more "window" popups constantly telling me it can't do this or that.
3. As a professional, time is money. The time I've saved not having to chase petty PC crap has more that paid for my MAC.
Simple is goooood!

While this may have been a Digital River mistake, is there any particular defense of MS for not checking/testing the download?!? Must be the same QC they perform on all their products. I'm stuck using a version of their RDC on a daily basis that has a bug whereby it doesn't recognize "Full Screen" commands in .rdp files. No fix from MS in nearly two years. Arg!
I don't care if Mac marketshare were to drop to .000001%, I'd still be happy with my fully functional Mac. It just works.

I bought the student home/pro downloaded WIN7 and installed it without any issues on Thursday night the first day it came out. Sounds like some people need a PC's for dummies class

Personally, I love the PC. My company has made a FORTUNE ironing out Windows boxes. Plus the look on their faces as I use my Macbook to diagnose their problem, is absolutely priceless. So by all means, PLEASE continue supporting Windows. My lifestyle depends upon it.

I feel so sorry for all the sorry suckers of apple that keep faking comments about 'Had it with MS, moving to Apple'
Not just Windows but even the new Linux whooped the butt of your over-priced, sucking incompatible Leopard-on-mac.. You are no where on the charts & for a good reason.
The messiah of your cult: Mr Jobs, tries to hog the whole food-chain. so everything has to be bought from Apple. Thats why the incompatibilty.

So keep up the rhetoric of your cult..
Aint gonna change nothin..

LOSERS!!!

This is so Microsoft, again with the issues and problems. I have better thing to do than try to decipher Windows problems and glitches. That said I bought an intel MAC and have not looked back and I am thinking about the new MAC that is unbelievable. I guess their unveiling had something to do with Windows 7 launch. And the new MAC commercial is spot on. As an IT professional I know the difference between and a good computer and OS, MAC and Snow Leopard and and one that takes up too much time and money in lost productivity , PCs and Windows.

They can run to switch to a Mac and lose all the data because they log in to a guest account.

Not trying to be a MS apologist here, but anybody ever think Mac OS X might be so "easy to use and stable" because of it's much lower level of difficulty as far as being an OS goes? No real backwards compatibility, tons of proprietary standards (both hardware and software), and an arrogant refusal to work with other vendors' hardware. Given all the things that MS has to do to maintain compatibility across platforms and hardware vendors, and the fact that it's products still basically work with everything coded and made for DOS and Windows since the mid-1980's with minimal tweaking, I think the Windows guys do a pretty decent job. That being said, Vista is a chore to work in.

What can you get for a Grand:

Toshiba Satellite A505-S6995 Notebook PC – Intel Core 2 Duo P7450 2.1GHz, 6GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVD, 16.0” TFT,NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 230M, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit

or
Mac Book
2.26GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB DDR3 memory
250GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
Built-in 7-hour battery2
Polycarbonate unibody enclosure

That's half the HD and 1/3 the DDR3 Ram and okay gaming graphics vs pretty good gaming graphics.

or for $2500 you can get a Mac Pro

or for $1500 I can slap together a I7, with 16GB DDR3 Ram, 3, 1.5 TB hard drives and add a couple of XFX Radeon HD 4890 Video Card – 1024MB DDR5 in cross fire mode.

Spend your cash however you want.

There are plenty of us who know PC's and Macs equally well. The jury says that if you want to spend time fixing these silly install problems..get a PC. If you want to actually be productive, get a Mac. Most of us need to make money by producing stuff with our computers. The handful here trying to say Macs are for idiots must be making money fixing PC's

If MicroSoft built a commercial airplane, would you fly across the ocean in it?

Didn't think so.

LouHarie,

You might want to check what the market share numbers are these days, and what's happening both in schools and workplaces: Macs are showing up. You just can't beat a laptop that just works. Yes, I own Macs, but I've also owned several Dells, HPs, and IBMs over the past 7 years. I develop software, and you just can't beat a system that wakes up reliably 99.99% of the time and only needs a reboot about once every 3-4 months for a system patch vs failing once out of every 5 or 6 wake ups and needing to be rebooted at least every 3 days due to patches or BSODs (recall – development machines)

I learned my lesson with MS fortran77 and DOS 4.0. Never buy MS vaporware until the 2nd service pack is working well.

I bought 3 new PCs this year, all w/XP and openoffice.org's office software. Works great and will last many more years.

IT didn't matter to me, I just saved some important files & programs, then did a new install, which I prefer anyway

How so very, very sad that even after the disaster called Vista, MS still cannot make it simple for ALL people to upgrade. I am an engineer and don't need PC's either. My Mac computer is all I need – works perfectly every time.

Thanks Mac for not being PC.

I have to chuckle reading these comments. It reminds me of when I was young and people would argue which was better, a Ford or a Chevy. Growing up, we solved problems with pencil and paper, and in college we did math calculations on our sliderules.

Perhaps in another forty years or so, today's computers will be thought of as primative. No one then will remember or care which OS was better.

this article is sooooo misleading…philip dude, do the justice , do not blogs to drive traffic to your site

glad I didnt have that problem. I used the RC for a while and it was pretty solid. I was a little scared to put it on my netbook, but it runs much better than linux did.

This was a great deal!

I know Mac try use fear as a marketing tool. I have been using Windows7 RC on my desktop for quite a while and it has been great too!

Wow, the instructions for the fix are really difficult — if you don't know how to copy and paste.

For the benefit of the kid who said he was 13 or something and that being younger makes you smarter — I installed three copies of Win 7 in a few hours, one 64-bit, two 32-bit, with no problem. I'm 63.

>Only people that mess up are idiots who don't know computers. People who don't understand them should get a Mac. They are for the simple people.

Riiiiight. That's why, for example, the Harvard Mathematics Department runs on Macs.

MAC users don't seem to be aware of the real issue with Windows, as opposed to Leopard.

In Windows, if you suffer a crash, you simply restart.

In Leopard, if you suffer a system crash, you risk having to install the ENTIRE OPERATING SYSTEM!

Macs are for people who know nothing about computers, much less the types of tasks described above (which are about as difficult as tying your shoelaces). If people want to switch to a Mac, then I say go right ahead. Unfortunately, you won't realize that you've paid a RIDICULOUS and INSULTING price for inferior hardware, a granny-loving O.S., and ZERO room for upgrading in the future.

The experts will stick with a PC, which is the most versatile and powerful computer you can possibly buy, with a MUCH greater lifespan than any dead-end Mac will allow for.

ex ped: Really?

Lol, Microsoft's Christmas present to Apple, I bet Apple has an ad out exploiting this within a week, and deservedly so, MS ftl

give me a break TPM – your using a proprietary OS and hardware platform where the only people that are able to develop for it are on the Mac payroll or "entitled" in some fashion. Mac will always be the "second child" of the OS world regardless of their cute adds or zealots that preach the Apple word because they refuse to open up to anyone but a select few "partners"…

Their business model and how they approach the business world it a clear example that they are not ready to deal in corporate America. It's easy to get in to the school system with a steep discount but the kids that use them are in for a shock when their first real job places them in front of Windows 7, connected to Windows Server 2008 R2….

What a joke! Did you see the instructions for fixing thus screwup?

Apple rules!

If you're dumb enough to not know how to make an iso from unpacked files, or can't even follow simple instructions, you DESERVE a Mac.

That is all.

It's so cute watching fanboys battle it out in comments.

OSs serve their purposes and if any of them were actually the end-all-be-all, the others would fade away. See that happening? I don't, but I only spend half my waking time supporting the three major variants.

I got a shiny new laptop with 7 installed last week. Got the upgrade to Professional 64-bit so I could install XP Mode for use with some old programs.

Turns out that the Intel processor (T4300) installed in the computer is incompatible with XP Mode technology, thus rendering this feature useless – Windows wouldn't even let me download it from their website b/c of the incompatible processor.

Joke's on me.

Personally, I love it every time some mouthbreathing cave-dweller is intimidated by a 'complex' Windows task and jumps ship to Mac. Apple always has catered to the simple-minded folks in life, and having their ilk all gathered into one place makes them very easy to ignore.

One less inbred on the PC side of the fence, one less whiner for the PC folks to constantly put up with. Good riddance.

Hmm! My upgrade from Leopard to Snow Leopard went off without a hitch on both my iMac AND my MacBook! Once again, Windows users get what they pay for, instead of investing in a Mac, where your OS comes pre-packaged with EVERYTHING you need, and installs flawlessly.

Philip, I see you are scared to death about Windows 7 so you have to resort to spreading rumours.

You are always a biased "journalist" but you just manage to outdo yourself again.

I loaded Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade last night. Took 1 hour, 40 minutes. AVG Firewall is not correct now, waiting for a fix from AVG (AVG was suppose to be one of the "Okay" programs). Had to remove Joost and Google Toolbar (Google and Microsoft at war?). "7" fixed 99% of my complaints with Vista.

We also have a Mac Laptop. They both have their pluses and minuses. But they are what they are.

My only "challenge" is that I had to pay $119.99 plus tax to fix Vista's problems (of which there were many).

Thank You.

I did not have any problem my laptop and PC from XP and Vista to Win 7. There was clear directions and for XP they had the easy transfer tool for a "clean" Install.
Vista users can upgrade and XP users have to do a Clean Install. I think the author should install it before writing a article on just hearsay.

que paso MS WordPad, Works Word Processor, Office Word 2003 are incompatible with each other. If one can't do documents and email them successfully all else is nothing

I have been a MS OS user and programmer since 1982. The experience with Win ME then the VISTA mistake and now WIN 7 (ME for VISTA) I have had enough. My PCs were sold on EBAY, I have two MACs with another comming. I don't relate well to the MAC world as yet but it is far better, so far, than the MS experience. I don't have to keep tweaking the software to get it to work and I have yet to experience a hangup or blue screen of death. A "PC" box has arrived that is getting a LINUX flavor installed. So MS there is no hope of my returning to your world of poor quality programming wrapped in poor QA and forced down manufacturers throats. I will miss building my own computers and having to learn how to live in the MAC world but I'm here to stay.

And they complain about Linux being too techie, too geeky?

I did a 32 bit to 32 bit Vista to win 7 upgrade from the microsoft web site on release day. No problems. It has been working fine. It asked if I wanted to upgrade to 64 bit but it was a lot more work and I did not chose to.

So some people can't figure out how to turn the install into a usable image, and can't put 2 and 2 together and figure out the inherent problems in upgrading a 32bit system to 64 bit and all of a sudden Windows 7 is severely flawed? Microsoft shouldn't have underestimated people's lack of common sense so perhaps theres some communication flaws here, but the OS is great.

I had zero problems with the RC and Student versions, including turning the install files to a nice bootable ISO – Windows 7 runs so much nicer than earlier Windows operating system and is a significant step up in their end; it really brings Windows into today's day and age – if you are having problems installing it, it's well worth trying to figure them out.

If you're not knowledgable enough to use a windows PC, get the accumulation of propietery PC hardware (Intel CPU, Corsair RAM, Asus motherboard, nVidia or ATi GPU, etc) inside a pretty Apple manufactured case known as a Macintosh…. or just install Mac OS on your PC (really, it's not that hard to get around Apple's attempt at platform exclussiveness on their OS).

Awesome! Maybe they'll get a Mac instead, and be free from worry of unknown future problems.

Why do no major corporations use Macs if they are much better computers? That's a good one. One reason is that corporations are skinflints when it comes to spending money on employees. They only look at how much money they can save on initial purchases. But the funniest thing is that all the money they save is going into the CEO's pockets. Do you realize that all those millions of dollars going into upper management bonuses could be better spent on buying decent computers for employees? Naw, not likely.

Secondly there is the old-guard IT manager. Mr. Kickback himself. This guy is the voice for 100,000 employees who never had a say on what computer or software they wanted to use on their desktops. To Mr. Kickback, a job well done is to play it safe and choose Dell, Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. Check, check and check, 100,000 times. Nobody ever got fired for choosing those venerable products. Mr. Kickback is never questioned about his choices. Why? Because anyone higher up doesn't want to listen to Mr. Kickback explain all those dull technical reasons why nothing else is compatible with Dell, Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. All Mr. Kickback has to do is start mumbling about Macs and OSX being incompatible on so many levels. Thanks, bye.

As long as Mr. Kickback, old-guard IT guy is in charge, forget about Macs in the corporate world. Oh, yeah, give my regards to that lovely Windows saleslady you've taken to the Shady Rest Motel every contract renewal time. Nothing like being handsomely rewarded for 100,000 Windows OS and MS Office site licenses.

I used the Laplink Windows 7 Upgrade Assistant to transfer my complete narddrive to a specific file. Then I downloaded the Student offered package. It would not open the first two times that I downloaded it but on the third try (I split it into two distince files), Windows 7 downloaded and it is working great.

Philip,

You're not very clever or bright, are you? The download itself self-installs windows for those who clearly shouldn't be trying to burn an ISO. I agree, it makes it slightly more difficult for users who know how to burn an ISO, but not difficult at all for really powerful users who know exactly what to do to create their own boot able disks. Your target audience seems to be those in the mid level of skill who know enough to be dangerous, but not smart enough to figure anything out on their own.

Hell? Hardly? Difficult? Not really. A minor inconvenience? Sure, I'll give you that, but is that really worth blogging about?

ex ped: I don't claim to be clever or bright, Michael. But was this worth blogging about? It's certainly got folks talking. Including some really bright and clever people. Like you.

Only people that mess up are idiots who don't know computers. People who don't understand them should get a Mac. They are for the simple people.

I've been running Win 7 since the first beta release and I have to say it is definitely better than Vista. Vista was actually a pretty sound operating system if you knew how to shut off the extra features that are really not needed. I like what Apple brings to the table, but the problem is that apple doesn't bring their products to the masses on a affordable level. Their elitest attitude really hurts their business whether they realize it or not. You pay all that extra money for an aluminum body. For a market that is increasingly changing with better technology, apple's business model will never overtake Microsoft no matter how many people bash it.

I got a new Mac, love it! I just dumped my Microsoft PC, too many problems UGH! Go with MAC!

The MAC versus PC argument is a waste of time. It is like the VHS/Beta argument during the VCR days. Both had positive and negative points. Computers are the same. Use what you prefer and let the other guy do the same.

So CNN is disguising MAC advertisements as news articles now? What a sad excuse for reporting…the title is misleading, and the content is biased.

They already stole my money once when I bought Vista. They won't be getting any more any time soon. A freebie upgrade for all Vista owners doesn't seem out of line to me. A $30 price tag for everybody would generate a lot more revenue than the obscene prices they are asking. FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU. FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME. Let me rephrase that, FOOL ME NUMEROUS TIMES,…..

My 15 year old upgraded his PC which was running Vista a couple weeks ago to prepare for his Launch Party. No problems here…..I think the older we get the harder somethings become…be the teenagers seem to be doing just fine.

BWAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA! Microsoft mucks it up – again! Shock, surprise! Look, folks, Mircosoft gave Digital River the "rights" to distribute Windows 7 online so it is Microsoft's responsibility to ensure that it's done correctly. Microsoft shouldn't even be charging a soul for this new "upgrade" because all it is is a fix for their prior garbage known as Vista. Pssst, folks dump your Microsoft and run Linux.

A quick question: If one uses the "Problematic" download to upgrade from 32 bit Vista to 32 bit Windows 7, is it a safe bet that all the problems detailed here will not occur? A quick read suggests that most of the people are having problems upgrading from the 32 bit Vista to a 64 bit version of Window 7.

Can anyone please confirm whether a 32 bit to 32 bit upgrade will be flawless???

Many thanks!

This article would be so much more useful if it told us something instead of using it to bash Microsoft. The problem isn't with Win 7 so much as this one resellers packaged version of it. It's also an issue with people running an downgraded version (32 bit?). I don't see anyone "running to an Apple store". While these lame attempts at finding anything & everything to slam windows might be appropriate in a Mac magazine's opinion section, I just don't see how it's constructive for the average cnn.com user.

Tell you what of those 85% with PC's, like me, if I had known what I know now about Mac's I would have made the switch years ago. I will never go back to a PC again. The programs are excellent, I have word, powerpoint, Excel… same as windows, and a host of app's that are FREE, Open Source for others to make them even better. Did I mention viruses…Oh I have a Mac, can't remember the last time my Mac was ever sick. So long Microsoft Windows for me no 7.

The Apple polishers are getting a little tiresome after all these years. I have been a professional systems engineer since the dawn of the PC era. All PCs and Macs can freeze, lock-up, have software glitches, hardware glitches and more. I'd like to see Apple support the thousands of different brand PCs, printers, scanners, cameras, drives, boards, etc. etc. etc. that Windows can. Why do no major corporations use Macs if they are so much better ?

Couple comments, if you want to go fro 32bit to 64bit upgrade is not the way to go. Second, DR has always been very up and down on product delivery. Third, I have a new Win7 laptop and what really bugs me is how I had to "Downgrade" to 32 bit for some of my apps to work, which means the extra memory I have is now worthless. Considering I have been running 64 bit on a Mac for 3 years now I would think windows would catch up.

To Mike, Aynor,

That's only because we can't unload our PC's on anyone.

Why are users still running 32bit? Goto 64 bit, you can run more ram and its much faster.

" trouble typing on a command line" That quote alone show why Windows is not user friendly. For those who truly upgraded and are now running Snow Leopard, welcome to a real OS and have fun your with new computing experience.

guess I got lucky…my $29 student upgrade installed just fine over my 32-bit Vista install. Sounds like it might be a PEBKAC error.

it appears that fuddles' pr machine is ?working? overtime.. again, here, as well as on 100's of other forums. although pathetic in their own right, the pr machine still works better than the infactdead bugwear.

@Matt in Knoxville
"So clearly it wasn't all systems, all students, or really anything to do with Microsoft or Win 7."

lol. I'm sorry, but the Micrsoft-acknowledged error with Windows 7 had nothing to do with Microsoft or Win 7? Read the article before making half-witted comments.

As for myself, I'll be upgrading to Seven later on, but only because Vista was a complete slap in the face to all PC users. The thought of jumping ship makes me squeal with joy, but the thought of driver problems make me want to cry. Hopefully the 2-3fps gain by switching to Windows 7 will be worth it though >_>

The Windows 7 upgrade (from Vista, 32-bit) for students installed just fine for me on my two year old HP laptop. It's already running more responsively than Vista.

This was a great work around, I upgraded my Mac to Snow Leopard and it went flawless!!!

85% of MAC users own a PC. Enough said.

I took advantage of the offer. I downloaded the file at about 12:30 PM the day of release. It downloaded fine, unpacked fine, and upgraded my 32-bit Vista Home Premium to 32-bit 7 Home Premium without hassle. So clearly it wasn't all systems, all students, or really anything to do with Microsoft or Win 7.

I thought MS was going to finally focus on producing a quality OS (a la Apple) instead of relying on its standard business model of generating revenue for the colossal support, maintenance, and training industries it spawns. Maybe I was wrong….

I am so done with Microsoft. Two years ago I bought a new Dell laptop (running Vista) and found it froze frequently and was nearly impossible to reboot, turn on or turn off. So much for the benefits of a laptop! Eventually I ended up paying a tech shop $150 to downgrade the laptop to XP, now it works just fine. My next computer will be a Mac.

My download and installation of Windows 7 onto my laptop went smoothly. The only problem I came across is that it wouldn't upgrade from the beta that I was previously running, and had to install a new copy.

Also, the finalizing installation section took a little longer than I expected, but if you have other things to do then this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I ran into this problem when I tried going from vista 32bit to windows 7 64 bit. I followed the instructions provided above, and within 25 minutes of downloading the files I was sitting on the desktop of my new install.

Thanks for the workaround!

I tried "upgrading" to Vista from Windows 2000, ended up getting a refund as the OS was too unstable and could not even play Microsofts own games!

As for Windows 7 I'll be patient and wait for the dust to settle and the price to be more reasonable before I "upgrade", I use the Professional OS but paying $300+ for the full version is ALOT to ask!

The glitch for college students says alot as Microsoft has had ample time to test upgrades to Vista 32bit etc and has made another comical error.

I am groaning already thinking of when the 1st service pack for Windows 7 will be available!! ouch….

Digital River–

There's you're problem right there!

Not sure why this is such a big deal… oh wait, it's because it's Microsoft. And since it's Microsoft everyone has to come out of the woodworks to bash it. I own a Mac and a PC… really, who cares? Nothing is 100%, we'd just rather go back and forth on this until we're blue in the face.
Just sit back and see how this plays out.

I am no fan of Microsoft, but…

Admittedly, the "launch glitch" is, in the end, Microsoft's fault. They failed to sufficiently test the deployment, but this has absolutely no bearing on the quality of Windows 7 itself, how much space or memory it consumes, nor any other tangible performance or functionality metric.

If you like Linux, or have a Mac, I'm happy for you, but that has *no bearing* on this particular issue.

Beyond that, none of the Linux manufacturers – or Apple – can hold themselves up as shining stars in software distribution.

Stones? Glass houses? Let's have a hypocrite party. It seems like there are so many in attendance here already.

I've worked in IT for over 40 years now, and mistakes continue to be made, by me and others. Folks, you're arguing about tools. I have both a corded and cordless drill.

Judging by the spelling I see, there is ample reason for many to fear actually having to type something on a command line.

"Macs are great for people who are too stupid to use tthe command line."

Excuse me… a Unix Command line interface is widely avalable in OSX and I use it constantly. Unix is a real OS used for mission critical apps like hospitals, banking, air traffic control.. not like the crap that M$ has put out for years

Their means they posses something
They're means "they are"

So possibly, do not correct someone's grammar or spelling unless you know you are correct.

Maybe the reason why they picked Digital River to be the download host, is they couldn't quite trust their own servers.

They didn't want the same problem they had with Danger and the Sidekicks to affect a Windows 7 launch.

Also commenting on the Google search results for Snow Leopard issues.

Snow Leopard was released on August 28, 2009. A lot can happen in 58 days. Inferring the superiority of a new release to something that has been out almost two months longer does not compare. You would have no basis for your fan boy position until Windows 7 has been out for that long.

The way to make sure you do not have any problems during launch is to make sure you control the distribution.

I run Ubuntu Linux. I don't have to worry about virues, spyware, malware, etc. It comes with Open Office, which is every bit as good as Microsoft Office, and the operating system also comes with GIMP, which is like Adobe Photoshop. All this is free. Free. Regular updates of all the software I have installed is pushed to my computer. Windows is a memory- and hard drive hog, ever full of bugs and security holes. The Mac users use Mac because it works. I use Linux because it works. Windows does not. Period.

I hope that the Mac OS is better than the Iphone OS. The phone freezes or crashes at least once a day. I am not surprised there are not as many reported issues when you are only 7% of the solution.
Operating System Usage
1 Windows XP 60.06%
2 Windows Vista 22.39%
3 Mac OS X 7.30%
5 Linux 1.84%

$120 is out of line for an upgrade that will probably turn out to be marginal over Vista. Offering a 75% discount to college student is going to bite them in the wallet as everybody else waits for their discount.. What about the guy that bought the hype over Vista and is now stuck with an OS that sucks? Where is my discount? They could probably sell 10 times as many copies at a $30 price tag. Bootlegging would drop dramatically too. MSFT should study the infomercial business. There is a price point where most people will make a purchase without thinking twice. Move above that price point and sales drop as the price increases. I can see it now….Hi, Billy Mays(RIP) here for Windows 7. Tired of the BSOD? Tired of constantly having to reboot? Then look no further than the newest operating system…….

@WKE235 "Sigh .. once again Microsoft screws up the deployment of a new product. I mean, how difficult can it be to actually test the download out on the different versiong of older MS products out there? They have a HUGE corporation. So this should be a no brainer. But nope, they royally frak it up."

Sigh, once again Apple screws up the deployment of a new product. I mean, how difficult, can it be to actually test the new OS to make sure it won't delete people's data? They have a HUGE corporation. So, this should be a no brainer, But nope, they royally frak it up.

(Do you want me to throw in the fact that Apple also just released a performance upgrade because their software was not allowed hard drives to operate properly? Or that they had to release an update to Snow Leopard within weeks of releasing it? Or that they also release security updates to their OS)?

I think the point is obvious here.

We had four Dell PCs in which three always had a problem and one worked ok. Now we have three MACs that work awesome and one PC that is barely ok. Soon we will have four MACs and everything will be fine. No interest in Microsoft ever again. MACs were easy and dependable from the beginning.

Love Snow Leopard, but I did have to reinstall both of my printers. The Exchange 2007 native support works flawlessly! Good luck with Windows 7. We use Windows Ultimate in the office as a Media PC. Going to install Windows 7 this week on it.

I like people who makes claims without supportive facts. Microsoft sold more Zunes than iPods last month. That's unsubstantiated. Microsoft has more trouble free software than than Mac applications. That's unsubstantiated. Microsoft let a buggy download get out during a critical time where it needs to public to love it. That is substantiated.

Macs are great for people who are too stupid to use tthe command line.

I just upgraded to Apple' Snow Leopard. It loaded seamlessly onto my year old Macbook and it works seamlessly with ALL of the programs on my computer. I don't have to buy a new copy of Pages or any other program. I hate Windows, and the only reason I use it in my office is that our system was originally built on it.

PS. I have never had a virus on my Apple and I've never had a crash. It starts up and closes in an instant. It is intuituve and just LIGHT YEARS BETTER.

If you're an Apple fan looking to bash Win 7, find a good reason. Pinning it on a trumped-up issue with a questionable third-party is stupid at best and crappy journalism at worst.

This is jsut a launch glitch. ALL programs have issues on first launch. That's why they invented patches. Just a thought, if you're so happy with your MAC then good for you, but please stop treating it like a religion. I don't want to be "converted." That doesn't make me worse than you. So stop. MACs and PCs are different everyone gets that. Stop whining about how much better Apples are nobody cares! People use PCs for the customization capability and greater access to software. Mystery solved.

Seriously, the whole Mac vs. PC argument is tired and obnoxious. We don't live in a perfect world and there is no "one thing" that will make everyone happy. Every piece of new technology has potential for problems. I think everyone knows this. And after that fact, people will like what they like. So enough with the snarky comments on every single article, blog, and press release. I used to like to read comments to gain further insight to a post topic. Every website has now become so full of retarded fanboy banter that I can barley stand it anymore. Stop arguing with each other and be content that you have your choice and other people can have theirs.

With Macs the user has too little control over the OS, with Linux, too much. PCs are just right.

@Jeff from CT: Their (possessive form) is correct. They're (contraction of they are) is NOT. Perhaps you need to relearn grammar (not spelling!).

ex ped: Actually, Jay, in the context — "Not saying their (sic) bad computers, just not worth their price tag." — Jeff is right. "Their" is wrong, and "they're" or "they are" would have been correct.

doesn't surprise me in the least! sure pc's are cheaper, but consider the time and aggravation of all the problems with pc's, peripherals and the software, like this problem – down time is costly. you would of saved money in the long run buying a mac! I have used a mac since their first computer and always upgraded to newer models. I have never bitched about the price because they run so stable, clean, easily and don't get the viruses all pc's get. I now have 3 for work, fun and pleasure. I can do without sex, but not my mac! lol

why oh why do people put up with this company and all their BS? look at what they are telling you to do… unbelievable techno garbage… please please please everyone stop buying this companies products unless you absolutely have to – buy a Mac and live happily ever after… C:\windows blah blah blah blah blah over and out, but mostly over.

To brent in pittsburgh: Ultimately it's Microsoft's fault as someone in the QC department failed to do his/her job properly

To Jonathan in Phoenix: Triple the hardware power? Not even close. And what good is a $1000 PC if it doesn't work? Also, please learn to spell: "their bad computers" should be "they're…".

To God from Mars: Ummm, 44,000 views? For one, single Microsoft problem? I'd say that is fairly substantial.

To Relic1980: Apple doesn't have to pay the media anything to discredit Microsoft since Microsoft discredits itself so frequently and so thoroughly.

To MC in San Antonio: "protocol schema"? Seriously? If you're going to make up terminology perhaps it should at least sound realistic.

the simple point is this, those of you who are mac or linux fans, problems happen with all of these machines, even yours, and this wasnt even microsoft's problem. D Riv should have tested what they were doing.

Todd in Seattle…funny…Apple's had a programmable two button mouse for a while with a scroll ball that clicks. Totally programmable. Don't be a hater!

Okay Ranch,

So congrats you bought a Mac with the intention of running XP on it. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of buying a Mac? Oh did you also do your research and figure out for 1000.00 you can get a PC with triple the hardware power than the one in your Macbook? Vista 7? Have you even used the Windows 7? How can people bash Windows 7 when they have not even used it? It looks to me like you just bought into Apples marketing. Not saying their bad computers, just not worth their price tag. Sorry but with Windows 7 out now there is little reason for a budget minded college student to get a Mac.

And we all know how much we like deuces in our diapers; right? There are tradeoffs with everything in life, and right now I opt for Windows 7. For the life of me, I just can't see forking over a grand for a Macbook.

Philip Elmer-DeWitt,

Yep 44,000 views.

Guess how many results google returns you when you type in "snow leapord issues"?

Let me help: 1,950,000

But alas, Windows 7 sold more copies on its first day then there are a total number of Apple OSes in the world.

Gotta try harder there buddy…

Sigh .. once again Microsoft screws up the deployment of a new product. I mean, how difficult can it be to actually test the download out on the different versiong of older MS products out there? They have a HUGE corporation. So this should be a no brainer. But nope, they royally frak it up.

Apple is NOT shipping Macs with one button mice, the mouse that comes with it is capable of being used as a button mouse, also has a handy scroll wheel. The only difference is that it ships with the two-button setting turned off. And strictly speaking, it's more like a 5 button mouse.

Do some research before you're tempted to mock.

I know many people who have been out of school for years and just use their old .edu emails which still work for this discount… I paid $100 even though I'm sure my old .edu email would work, but at least I've got a hard copy that works.

I dont get it , these steps are not that hard. One guy already mentioned it worked for him. The rest of you – are you actually in this situation or just repeating some age old opinions in the hope it will come true? Also what about this comment "at least Microsoft's new OS hasn't randomly deleted entire hard drives worth of user information and content. Snow Leopard has been known to do that.
"

wow…in reply to todd from seattle. you must be a retard. you only have one button to click because a right click it tapping the mousepad with two fingers. its wayyyyyy more efficient than having a second button. what a douche.

First of all, I've been using the RC for a while and it's been more stable that Vista ever was.

This isn't a problem with the OS, it's a problem with the war Digital River packaged it. The exact same thing could easily have happened to a Mac OS.

Secondly, that's actually a fairly simple workaround.

Finally, just ask them to cancel your order and then go ahead and get the Professional edition. It includes all the stuff in Home Premium and a little bit more.

"The are shipping the machines with a one button mouse!"

Well, their mouse is one button but has the same features of a two-button mouse? The mouse with a one-button looks way better than the 2 button one. With that aside, most people now run Windows on their Macbook. In uni were I'm at, everyone has a version of Windows in their Macbook….well, no wonder they increased in sales. Because white notebooks look way cooler. google sniper

What a surprise. The biased media decides to make a mountain out of a molehill, and of course the Apple zombies jump on board (and I am sure the Linux trolls will follow suit).

I have been using Win 7 on test and main machines since the Public Beta, and haven't had any massive problems even in the early stages, and by RC none at all.

And buy a Mac? Sorry, but I like to be able to fix a machine when a part wears out, instead of sending it in to an Apple repairman and get price-gouged for an already underpowered device.

Despite Apple slaves maintaining otherwise, Apple is a worse monopoly than MS ever was. You can use Windows courtesy of Boot Camp, but if I had a lapse of sanity and decided to put an Apple OS on my machine, I couldn't do it without modifying my machine physically to accept the OS, and Apple's TOS says that is illegal to put their OS on a non-Apple PC.

How much is Apple paying the media to try and discredit MS, anyway?

All that this Mac fanboy "article" really says is don't buy anything the day it's released. If this is the only hickup for Windows 7, I'm not too worried. I want it and plan to upgrade, but I'm going to wait a week or two.

stay away from "reality distortion field" please. Why do you have to always quote others research. Try to do some research on your own.

If all of you Macaphiles think for one second that Apple would be successful offering their operating system to just about every computer on the planet without any glitches , you are an idiot.

Why Win7? Why a Mac? XP does everything that an end user requires and with less hardware. It has all the drivers, interfaces, etc. needed to accomplish just about any job. Can you say this about Win 7?
Also, support for XP will end in 2014 – by my calendar that is at least 4 years away.
Do you want to spend a lot of money in this economy to accomplish nothing or even go backwards?

I've used both Macs and PCs for years.
PCs: Viruses, Spyware, Malware.
Macs: None
Need OS license validation? Not with a Mac, but with Windows – and with license in hand – you have to call and get someone in India who can barely speak English stating their name is Betty or Robert. Surrrrre it is. If you ever have a Mac problem, you speak to someone here in the USA.
Add a new drive, camera, or other device to a Mac – works instantly.
Add anything to a PC – install drivers, may not work, hunt for updated ones. Plug & Play on a PC is a myth – you still have to plow through a 'wizard' to hopefully make things work. Why must a driver be installed to use a portable HD? A Mac sees it and it's ready for use.
Inovation? MS OSs were last to include drivers for a Mouse, last to incorporate a 3.5 diskette, last to support a GUI, Web Browser, LANs, WANs, last to support CDs, DVDs, USB….
And don't get me started on MS business practices – crippling competitor's products to push their own crap.
I have spent 1000 x more effort on keeping PCs running and making things work on them as compared to a Mac. My time is 'money'. Macs aren't perfect, but in the final analysis of the past 20 years, WinPCs has cost me untold hours / money. Bottom line, Mac has historically been better and will probably continue to be. The best thing MS has done is create a separate division for MS Office for the Mac – it always outperforms the PC version.

Ubuntu 9.10 in just a few days…and you'd never have to worry about these problems…or cost…

I see some people talking bad about MAC… and i have used both, and know many people that do… and everyone agres Mac is more userfriendly… but they say you can do more on windows… but i think it comes down to Mac is better for the non expert, and also is cooler… Microsoft use to be cool and work fine… im on my forth windows product in 2 years… and i didn't learn my lesson the first time… Mac is my next computer, and from what i have seen i will be glad to pay the extra money… espeically with the new ones!

OMG!!! The solution requires THE COMMAND LINE!!!! That kind of abuse of the human mind is reserved only for linux geeks, isn't it?? Something in Windows can't be done with a GUI??? It's the apocalypse!!

(Or is that justification for the OCCASIONAL need to use the command line in linux too?)

Solution for mac users: uninstall "Boot Camp Services," from Windows Vista (don't worry most drivers will still be there), restart, install Windows 7 as usual (it will work now), then reinstall Boot Camp Services. I ran into trouble and this was the easiest solution I found. Hope it helps!

I am a Mac and PC user for some time now and I have to say that Apple is full of patches as well. I cannot even upgrade my computer to Snow Leopard or add any more patches because it is not the same protocol schema. The computer is so messed up now that I have to reformat it. I use use Vista and it is so much better than Apple OS. Definitely, PCs are so much better.

Mickeysoft strikes again

I forgot to add the link:
http://www.ubuntu.com/
Oh, and it's FREE!

Digital River builds a bad ISO file — and that becomes magically Microsoft's fault??? — I Don't Think Ao !!. They should be lucky that MS is even willing / offering to assist.

5 days until Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala, built on the stable Linux Kernel.

The only thing a mac is good for is snooty college punks at Starbucks who like to sit there all day and pretend they are writers, or for sheeple who don't understand enough to know they are getting locked out of 90% of the available programs on the market.

Wow, all you people commenting about Snow Leopard's user account deletion error? Sure, it should have never happened, but it only affected a few. No release is perfectly smooth, but to be fair, this Windows 7 hiccup is not a big deal either. The headline here "Windows 7 student upgrade hell" is a bit overly dramatic. I still won't use Windows, but no need to exaggerate problems.

Hey Todd from Seattle:

No, the Apple mice are not one button. The top is just seamless. You click on the left or right just like a normal mouse. Feels a little weird at first, but you get used to it. And the new ones released last week not only have two buttons, but also gestures for other actions. Or, alternatively, you can use any generic 2- or 3-button mouse with a Mac if you prefer. Who rides the short bus now? Please do your research before you make yourself look like a tool!

I am concerned when PC owners think it is normal – no, a rite of passage- to have to know command line computing. It's a nice to have, or should be these days. Let's face it; those who make fun of people who cannot do command line computing announce their savvy this way. They grew up trashing their DOS and Windows 3.1 machines and they can re-install and configure and sometimes even build their own machines. Hurray for you. But your children will laugh at you. It will be like someone bragging about punch cards, or teletype. Command line computing is a relic and no matter how much street cred you think you get with it, the number of people who are impressed is shrinking. This is not an Apple vs. Microsoft screed, like many other comments. Those who condemn Microsoft because of this problem and those who defend it are refracting this problem through their own mental prisms. Problems happen. It's what Microsoft does afterwards that matters. I am concerned that Microsoft – and many people commenting here – continues to assume that everyone must have the skills they obtained at the age of 12. The fix isn't the command line fix. The fix is a repackaged upgrade process so people can get on with their lives. Sending people scurrying back to their DOS days could easily be avoided. My own experience with Windows 7 was to download the Microsoft software to check if my XP machine could run Windows 7. Unfortunately, the software failed to "find the Windows Server" through my broadband connect and would not do anything. My interest in Windows 7 was further drained when one of the links on the screen was wrong and it failed. So now I have both second and third thoughts about bothering with an upgrade. And if Microsoft proponents, or Microsoft itself, thinks that the solution is command line computing, I'd rather not bother. My computer is a tool, not a rite of passage.

Ah, yes…the race to be the first in line. As someone whose college days ended 30 years ago, here's a couple of things I've learned over the years: Never buy a new model the first year out from GM, and always give Microsoft three to four months to get the bugs out before upgrading!

If you had tried to actually use the Apple mouse you would have realized you can use it to right click, but I guess anyone who makes jokes about mental retardation is probably too ignorant to understand.

As always the Apple die-hards have turned a blind eye and embraced half-truths about their operating system. Snow leopards roll-out had apple faithful screaming for a downgrade because of frozen and crashing applications, and they still believe their OS is "more secure" … it's not, it's just attacked less because there as so few of you. I love my iPhone, but geez, people, live in reality.

Some of these comments just kill me. Utterly steeped in ignorance. It wasn't MCRSFT that screwed up, it was Digital River. More importantly, Apple is doing all the nasty things that they used to accused MCRSFT of doing. Has anyone noticed how iTunes doesn't like to play with anything that isn't Apple-based? Steve Jobs is just another Bill Gates, but much much more devious and cunning.

"STUDENT UPGRADE HELL"… gimme a break !!!
Forget whether you are a MSFT or Apple fan… this article is just another case of poor journalism. Whatever happened reporting the facts or the news and allowing the reader to draw conclusions. I suppose in another 10 years it will be hard to find a university level "Journalism" program. "Sensationalism 101" anyone ? Or, maybe by that time we will all need someone to tell us what to think rather than gathering information and drawing our own conclusions.

Philip, you need to get a life from being Apple sycophant. Microsoft has to build a OS for all kinds of hardwares and millions of already built apps. While apple builds and test their new releases only for their own hardware and even then they don't get it right. Did you forgot MobileMe…how screwed up it was

I bought my first MacBook Pro three years ago. I hated it! I wanted to sell it! Instead I stuck with it. After it was stolen from my motel room while I was asleep in the room I bought another one! I have always been amazed at how Apple can turn out a new OS every year with no glitches and every thing works perfectly! I just bought 7 for my MS desk top! I got as far as inserting the disc and read the first warning! I coud not just over lay 7 with Vista! I had to wipe my hard drive and start over! That means re-installing everything! I NEVER have to do that with my Mac! I can not wait until I get enough money to get my Mac desk top!

There are too many Q's to buy the stuff at university as it is NOW this BS. I could not buy any MSFT anything without my school ID loaded with money. Apple stuff = hand over whatever payment and get your stuff. i dropped the "New Vista 7" sold my beloved HP ($475 i paid $1100) and upgraded to the new Macbook. Oh, the Apple people said I can run Win XP on the Macbook too.

Get an Apple???? Hahahaha!!! No thanks! They are still shipping the machines with a one button mouse! Hahahahaha!! A one button mouse is like riding the short bus with a deuce in your diaper.

> So Digital River builds a bad ISO file — and that somehow becomes magically Microsoft's fault???

Yes, using Microsoft technologies rots your brain. Other companies that use MS stuff produce shoddy products. It's been that way for 20+ years now.

Too funny:

Microsoft has blithered, fumbled, and generally behaved like a company that is too large, fat dumb and happy, and bloated beyond belief.

As an Apple user of some time, people who pay good money for Microsoft junk should look at options.

So digital river screwed up on their installation package and all the mac users are crying to get an apple. just like the apple commercials which are too insecure to list the positive aspects of their systems try to bash windows (remember girls, pc's are not exclusive to windows…think LINUX). windows 7 is a great os, and I am glad they finally put a major effort into a solid OS…I wish they would give better upgrades to vista users but thats for another day. Anyway, I'll stick to engineering software to an OS that has ~90% of the market share.

So Digital River builds a bad ISO file — and that somehow becomes magically Microsoft's fault???

Oh yes – please go get Snow Leopard and a Mac – and you too can wonder where your user account and files went to when you use a guest logon. Bias at its worst – and somehow CNN considers this actually, ehem, "news."

If this is news than Bill O'Reilly is Edward R. Murrow.

Hello,I might be wrong, but windows seven I understood was created for 64 bit systems with min.2gig harddrive

Worked great for me : ) No problems whatsoever.

I'll bet that Win 7 2.0 will be out within 6 months.

I'm tired of buying MS products that require patches, buying MS products that are not backward compatible with other software or hardware.

Thank you "larry Fritzlan" for the lucid explanation of why Mac fanboys so love Steve's hyper-jive-product. To say you're "so grateful that I have never, ever had to know what a C drive was" tells me it's probably best that you nice Mac folks just step away from the PCs…

Thats the problem of being too early. Better get the program later, you don't have a problem with either macs and pcs if you get it later. you can even get it free!

I for one am dumping Mac OS X for Windows 7. My MacBook has been a heap of problems and it wasn't all that easy to use to begin with. If it takes me an extra 15 minutes to get a great deal on the Windows 7 upgrade, that's fine by me.

Apple would do well to tread lightly on this. Windows may have had some upgrade issues for some but at least Microsoft's new OS hasn't randomly deleted entire hard drives worth of user information and content. Snow Leopard has been known to do that.

The 1970s called – they want their C: drive back.

I followed the instructions listed in the article posted from another site, and it worked – on the second try. The trick to burning the DVD ISO is choosing a slow burn speed. Anything set to MAX on the DVD burner tends to go too quickly, and therefore, possibly missing some component. I burned it a second time at a very low speed (4x), and the install went very smoothly. I'm really enjoying Windows 7!

OMG – this is hysterical – definitely time for a good OS – get an Apple

Really? Tough instructions? REALLY?

Get a grip.

one problem not bad… but this is how vista started… rightwith one problem… well i don't care… im giving apple my money… microsoft is worried about to much stuff besides computers.

This article is horribly biased. Why would someone with an email that ends with @mac.com be considered credible? I really do not understand how a "news" organization can publish such drivel and expect to be considered reputable. This is really discouraging and makes me wonder about other articles.

I am working off Windows 7 right now and really like it (professional edition). I bought it through DR and didn't have any problems.

Apparently Microsoft learns poorly from the history it helped to make as it gradually morphs into the type of company it once held in greatest contempt. I think Hank Shrier's earlier comments are valid. With a WinXP or Win7 fallback made freely available to Mac buyers, they have a lot to gain and nothing to lose. Microsoft might think "no big deal, they still are buying Windows.". Wrong. Instead, Microsoft and its desktop-heavy fat-app model gradually fades into irrelevance. Even though I develop software only for the Windows platform, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind (collaborating daily with people who routinely use both platforms) that the Mac in many ways is more agile, more user-friendly, more versatile, less hassle prone than Windows, even Windows 7.

"Apparently the download files weren't properly packaged, or something"

Seriously? A journalist used the words "or something" in an article.

I've had both MACs and PCs since the mid-80's and while there has always been a greater "ease of use" with MACs, the PCs definitely had their useful places. All computers require a certain amount of routine maintenance, Win boxes generally consumed more of my time in this regard. (I do that for a living, so I'm not complaining) This particular issue seems to have been created by Digital River, not Microsoft and Apple will make hay from it…but that just part of our competitive system. I have been running Win7 in a Boot Camp partition (and in a virtual machine) in my iMAC for several months and have been very impressed with the responsiveness and reliability of this version…the best Win version ever! BTW, installed Win7 Pro Thursday night without a glitch.

All of these Mac users that are so proud that they don't get viruses…That's like being a virgin and being proud that you don't have an STD. Well, duh!

You've got to be kidding! Does MSFT ever learn from paste mistakes?????????

lol — Can anyone spell LINUX

Everyone who says this has nothing to do with the OS is right. Both Macs and PCs have issues occasionally and that's to be expected. Back everything up before a major upgrade.

That said, I switched a company of 80 users to mostly Macs from Windows about six years ago. Within six months to a year, most of the staff drop kicked their home Windows machines and bought Macs. They all thanked me for introducing them to the Mac and they're evangelists now. My support staff went from five people to two, mostly dealing with the remaining PCs.

Almost everyone I know personally outside of work has also switched to the Mac from Windows without my prompting and they couldn't be happier. That says more about the differences in OS and hardware than anything.

oscdimg.exe –u2 –b"C:\expandedSetup\boot\etfsboot.com" –h "C:\expandedSetup" C:\WIN7.ISO

Oh, thank you so much for that special spell needed to cross the Bridge of Eternal Peril. Previously we were giving the option of figuring this ourselves, or getting it for free from the helpful kiosk on the other side of the bridge.

;>
Paul Wolborsky
http://www.ajaxofalltrades.com
Sustainability blog: http://www.ajaxofalltrades.com/sustain

just goes to show you how others are better.

now snow has an install in place upgrade which isn't flawless either.

This type i have not seen from m$, though.doubt the legality of the DL.

ubuntu isn't without fault, usually worst case is grab the next release and reinstall(and reinstall newer apps again, chugging your bandwidth on a good connection for 8 hours….this using a package list). sometimes you need to leave the way it is setup and wait for the next second release cycle to fix all the bugs. sometimes a patch knocks out working hardware like the ps2 headset for skype.[seriously need to fix that in 8.10...] but in general UBUNTU DOESNT have this type of issues.Score one for Linux.

We also have both Apples and PCs in our family. We've found they each have had their problems. My daughter's MacBook has been in the shop twice and it isn't even two years old. The problems we've had on our PCs have been solvable at home. Nothing that 'man' builds is perfect. Accept that computers are machines that will eventually fail in some way and back up your files regularly.

I just purchased the student deal from dan river and it downloaded quick and just fine..59.99 det u word, ppt,acess, publisher,excel and more. Must a student email ending with .edu

LOL! Thanks for the entertainment

This has NOTHING to do with which OS is better. Anyone offering a product can take one simple step before launching something on a public site. Test the download package to be sure it works. Test it with a variety of browsers and a variety of systems.

People did not want a refund, they wanted the value of the deal they made. This is another case of a complete disconnect between marketing and execution.

Apple has done a great job of taking advantage of Microsoft's missteps. Since 75% of Microsoft's target audience for the upgrade is Windows XP users, you would think that an investment in a simplified upgrade path would be money well invested. Apple might be well advised to offer anyone who switches from an XP box to a new Mac a free copy of XP for the Mac and a free transfer of the existing Data. Apple would most likely have customers for life.

Think about how much time and money Windows users have blown up on virus protection and lost data.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Apple fanboys can't remember when AAPL shipped faulty Snow Leopard install disks: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/27309/1085/
Or faulty Leopard install disks: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10329104-263.html

This also happened with Jaguar too.

Don't make this into a PC vs Mac issue when Apple is just as guilty. Anybody that has ever done a large software release (1mil+ clients) knows that it is absolutely impossible to get everything right on the first try. Everybody makes mistakes, including Apple.

I have bought software through Digital River a few times in years past, and it has always been a hassle with similar problems, so don't blame Microsoft – other than for using DR in the first place.

I expected this wouldn't work because you cannot unpackage a 64-bit extractor into a 32-bit environment. They don't speak the same language. You have to extract the executable using the written instructions from download squad and just create an iso. Why Digital River didn't just give us the ISO, I do not know, but its an extra step. One other thing, its $30 bucks! I don't mind the extra work to save myself $170.

Microsoft doesn't even verify their software before releasing it and they say this version will be different. Congrationals Microsoft you proved it is different you cant even start the install process! Hello Apple I know your reliable and won't pull a Microsoft on me.

What a thoroughly irresponsible article and title. CNN and the writer should be ashamed of themselves for creating drama where none exists. CNN, by elevating an "Apple 2.0" article to a front page position on your website, you're endorsing product bias. Bad form.

As an author I live and breathe my laptop, and after watching 2 brand new Macs "burn up, overheat, or melt" in just a few months (the replacement quickly followed the first one) I got a refund and a HP. I'm not the only one. I know 2 New York Times Bestselling authors that had the same issue. Windows is not a great program, but at least my computer is running.

Matt from Dallas, Tx is definitely lying!

@ex ped, RE: Matt – I was referring to the claim that not one Apple computer in his classroom survived 4 years of college. We know what's really going on here. Once the word "fanboy" comes out, we can assume it's just MSFT shareholders defending their investment. I can't blame them for that, and I'm happy for them that their quarterly results weren't nearly as bad as expected.

Just another example of MS F-ups. Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. It will be another 5 years and 300 patches before they actually get the 7 OS (Oh Sh!?) to the point where it is usable.

I wish Microsoft well, but to me this is just another example of how clueless corporate MSFT is compared to Apple:
* the "monkey sees… monkey does" opening of Microsoft stores – not clear why,
* the awful media ads they have produced trying to counter Aapl's "cool guy – square guy" TV ads,
* the recent attempt to squeeze creativity from their MSFT customers to send them photos/videos of – get this – parties held to celebrate the launching of Windows 7. That is really laughable.
Maybe it's the difference between being located in Silicon Valley vs. Outback Washington but Microsoft definitely needs some new insight about how to market its products.

To Larry who says that Mac and PS fanatics should get a life–well we can't afford to get a life because girlfriends cost money (especially if they are good looking), and we don't have any money. If being a part of the Mac vs PC battle keeps you energized and interested in your life than what's wrong with that? For some people it's no more meaningless than going to church or watching soap operas or reality shows.

ex ped: Or, in Larry's case apparently, going to strip clubs.

For a shocking experience go to the Microsoft Answers‘ Windows 7 install forum. It was not funny. I got rid of all the computers using Microsoft softwear many years ago and switched to Macs, but the forum above and other "answers" forums revealed problems with "Windows" that I never dreamed were possible.

Sorry, Matt. I honestly believe you are lying.

ex ped: I don't know about that. He's right about the Windows 7 install fail being a distributor issue. But I've never heard anyone claim, as he says so many people do, that Macs never have problems.

Hah, going through grad school last year I found it sadly amusing what my eight Mac using classmates had in common upon graduation – they all had new computers because the Mac they started the program with went kaput. I don't understand how so many people say Macs never have problems, because I haven't met a single Mac owner in person who hasn't admitted to having issues of some kind. Is this simply cognitive dissonance at work? Anyway, different strokes for different folks, I don't get why we have to be so critical of one another just because we choose one computer over another. What meets my needs may not meet yours and vice-versa…no need to attack other people because you can't understand why my lowly PC makes me happy.

BTW, I believe it has already been pointed out, but this appears to be more of a distributor bundling issue than a Windows issue.

The problem was installing windows 7 64bit version from a 32bit Vista or XP. I had the same problem, it was a pain and the error message was cryptic. I think it was trying to run a 64bit program during the install/unpack process. Microsoft should have had more oversight on this if Digital River did indeed develop the bundle.
However, that being said, this is by far the best version of Windows ever. Better than my Snow Leopard I think.

I'm a Mac-head, but you gotta give MSFT a break on this one. Not only was Snow Leopard initially a problem install for some, but Leopard was, too. Apple eventually got Leopard right with 10.5.2, but it took two passes to get it right. On the .0 and .1 releases, you were prevented from installing Leopard; remember that one? In each case, MSFT and AAPL, most users did NOT have problems, but SOME did. It'll work out in the long run. Stories like this are simply designed to bring in web traffic. And it works!

I have a Mac and a PC, both have pros and cons. I do have to give credit to Microsoft since they have to make an operating system that can work on a million different hardware configurations. Apple couldn't get it right on Snow Leopard to work with what maybe 10 hardware configurations!

My $0.02

You dorks that debate over Apple and Windows need to get a girlfriend, wife or at least go to a strip club. For 99% or customers that use Windows it works just fine – yes a few irritants but most people aren't nerdy power users. I have an Apple notebook and
WinTel PC I don't notice any significant difference between the two OSs on speed, ease of use or reliability. Get a life – go to a football game, drink a few beers and stop with this pissing match over who's is longer. You dorks!!!

Microsoft is one big mistake they need to get out of the software business and go in the canned meat business they would find a way to
screw that up as well

worked fine for me.

Wow, since when did Wired become so biased and pro-MAC? Microsoft releases a new OS and they barely cover it. Except for some poorly-written junk such as this article. Steve Jobes sneezes and they release a dozen positive articles. It would be nice to see some balance, along with quality.

My experience was worse than hell….they wasted all my money on phone credits and bad customer service. Way to go Apple

I had severe issue when upgrading Mac OSX 10.4 -> 10.5. I have to ssh into the machine, kill some plist files in order to even get to Login screen. Upgrading is just a constant pain and impossible to get everyone right from one's already customized machine.

This article is just plain stupid. There is one reason and one reason only that the users experienced problems, the service which microsoft used to distribute the software instead of packaging the software in an ISO package, they distributed as individual files. And to make make an ISO you really don't need to take all those complicated steps most major cd burning software out there will create an ISO effortlessly. To the MAC users, Microsoft has tested Windows 7 in the real world. I know because I was part of the beta and RC1 version tester. Those saying you upgraded without any issues on on MAC well let me be the first to say since I've owned my pc all my upgrades have been flawless. From DOS 6.22 all the way to windows 7 RC1. Don't blame the company for the error of the distributor. And by the way one last thing, with all the new features in 7 oh yeah, its simple, fun, and relaxing. =)

An apple Fanboy wrote this article, Lets do the math roughly 300 million pc's will be sold in the next year. Apple will sell a small fraction of that number. Sell 300 million of anything and you will have problems. The world has already voted for the best VALUE.

ps-I own a Mac and a Dell PC, both do what I need. The Mac(is prettier) but cost almost 250% more than the PC.

I used a student upgrade Win 7 on my Vista PC without a problem. Have no clue what is all this about. And as much as I prefer simplicity of Apple's OS, and work on a Mac altogether, Win & seems to be a significant improvement over Vista.

I like the blog that said there were "very few issue" when the new Windows 7 was installed on the families three computers.
I've upgraded every time Apple has introduced a system since OS7 and have NEVER had any "issues". Always quick & simple. Thanks Steve!

I agree. The author is a moron.

This just made me lough a bit ! Only when I read Robert's comment I realised how much some persons love their computer for making computer-things, not for working this.
A Mac is like a screwdriver, you just use it, no need for a notice. It's so relaxing

Well, these things happen. Remember Snow Leopard install required a flash light?? See the link before Apple before you put this incident in an ad.

ex ped: Snow Leopard had some bigger problems than that. See Apple owns up to a Snow Leopard bug

That has nothing to do with installing software. It's a bug not something major like this install crap.

I expect better reporting from CNN than fox style lynching. The very reason that CNN sets itself apart is disappearing.

I purchased the Windows 7 Family Pack. I installed it on all 3 computers with very few issues. In fact, I think it was the easiest upgrade ever! However, I would recommend that you download and run the system check first. It makes it alot easier.

And why is this update hell? I mean you're right, it does require someone to know how to (a) read and (b) type however I would think that the average college student might have these skills.

Please don't publish sensational headlines like "upgrade hell" to describe relatively minor issues. Next we will hear about "new car hell" when people drive off the lot with less than a full tank of gas.

What, you mean I have to put fuel in this thing? They didn't put THAT in the instructions!!!

Chris

Yet again….

Microsoft releases another DOA product. It is inconceivable that they would sell this without testing it in the real world- that is, trying it the way people use it.

Just another reason why I jumped to Macs and have never regretted it, not for a minute.

I've been using Macs since 1984 and look at all this "C:\expandalkjd" language and am so grateful that I have never, ever had to know what a C drive was. Thank you Steve. I'd rather have fun.

LF

Those steps are simple and easy to follow. Plus you get an actual CD copy of your Windows 7 purchase, something I would want anyway.. And finally, NOBODY should be doing the upgrade. A fresh install is always recommended. That said, terrible testing and implementation by Microsoft.

What???? lmao…. hope people realizes it's time to Mac, because it just works right out of the box, wether it's a new computer, or an OS upgrade.

i had no problems upgrading. the author is a moron to focus on outliers.

Considering Apple had an issue with Snow Leopard completely erasing all user data when users with guest accounts upgraded from Leopard, Apple really won't be able to say much about this issue.

So in other words, this isn't a problem with Windows 7, but rather a problem with a particular on-line distributor. I don't see how this is a problem with Microsoft, but rather Digital River.

As for the "6" steps (odd how your list only actually has 4, 5 if you include the "ta da" step that has nothing to do) you posted, if they are too hard for a college student to follow, perhaps they need to rethink college and ever working at almost any job more complex than dishwashing? I wish most IT fixes I dealt with daily were this simple, but I guess a Mac user can't be expected to handle real detailed instructions…

ex ped: Six steps was my error. Thanks for catching that. But five seems a fair count, given that after the "ta da" you still have to burn a disk.

Digital River has been screwing up software sold downloads for years! I bought a PC-cillin renewal download a couple of years ago and it never went right, and they did nothing to resolve the problem until I disputed their charge to my crdit card.

Good luck with these clowns, and avoid them at all costs!