iPod challenger? Microsoft Introduces Zune HD

I believe that when it comes down to it, it's all about the personal preference. I have no loyalty to any company. I have the second gen 120gig zune and i'm perfectly happy with it. My brother has a 16gig itouch and I love it. I like the functionality of the ipod compared to my "brick", but in the same note I like my "brick" for its independent nature. I don't need apps to make play lists or pay for games. Thanks to XNA I have games that I never paid for, I have multiple play lists I didn't have to pay for either. I think big corporations should give the end user's wallets a break. Do you really need to charge $5 to make play lists or put games? That's over-kill. Same goes for Microshaft. 800 Microshaft points for a map pack? You've released three map packs already, make one free for gods sake. I see loyalty to the company that looks out for me the most. Sadly, Apple charges for almost everything I see, so in my opinion Microsoft pulled one out of their hats as I'm going to buy the new Zune vs the Ipod. I don't bash people for their choices, but I won't have other people impose their choices on me.

@Ding Dong, Kowloon

Did you design Apple? Do you own stock in Apple? Do you get paid for Apple advertisement? If you don't I'd send Apple an e-mail.

@Swordmaker, Stockton, CA

I find that there are two kinds of people that have Apple computers. The first being people that NEED it. Their lives revolve largely around video or audio making/editing. The second being the people that need to spend big bucks on a name-brand. I find them to be pompous up-class people that know little to nothing about computers or PMP.

Apples are very capable computers, but it doesn't suit me. I want the choice to upgrade or replace parts if they go out. I like the funcionality of a PC. I like managing my network, it's shares. I like editing my registry and cutting corners to achieve more performance. With apples to me it seems everything is hidden and aimed more to the main stream population. I like getting down and gritty with my PC. It comes down to personal preference.

Although I find it amusing that Apple has to run Microsoft virtual machines.

Not at all an insult just a statement. Guess apple has the ability to run best of both worlds.

I'm not insulting anyone but seriously, state pro's and con's. (Not directed to anyone) Don't flaunt your loyalties as it's pretty irrelevant.

Wasn't this a HEADLINE a couple years ago??

Nothing has changed.

Zune is a failure.

@ Kremlin, who bloviated:

. . . ive had to fix more Apple Computers do to simple viruses then MS.

You do? Name those "simple" Mac viruses you have had to remove.

It is really strange that you should make the above claim, when you go on to state:

". . .most mac docs don't really deal with viruses because macs don't get them after all. now the fact that there aren't really any is entirely besides the point. . . if they hadn't created a product no one could afford, then there would be viruses for it . . ."

So the viruses you have had to remove from Macs don't exist? You state as a fact that there "aren't any," so I guess, it is true that you misspoke when you claimed to have fixed more infected Apple Computers "do to simple viruses then MS?"

Your logical disconnections are exceeded only by your amazing abilities at exaggeration and the imperfection of your grammar. Do you actually write satire for a living? I think you must.

HAHAHAHAHA @ Kremlin.

That was directed at swordmaker i believe, if there was any confusion.

i run 12 and im glad that your computer works for you. i don't like the OS developed by Apple, ( if u hadn't noticed) and for all intents and purposes i do no what im talking about. That we happen to disagree is given. Howsoever, that does not detract from the fact that my computer is a falcon mach 5. Its not a massive computer but it gets the job done ( Intel Core i7 965, 12gb of ram of DDR3 SDRAM, mem speed 1066 MHz, Hardrive 2 tb drives, ATi Radeon HD 4870 Graphics card with Windows Vista.) i put Apples OS on there and and yea it worked and yea it got the job done, but have you happened to test your firewall recently? It had more holes, if you no what your doing, than swiss cheese. Seriously, all i do is write programs to test firewalls and to fix them. Im fairly good at what i do, and ive had to fix more Apple Computers do to simple viruses then MS. Granted, i get more MS problems, but thats because, typically, of user error. MS has good firewall protection, along side the fact that there are millions of viruses out there that it defends against. think about it. what would happen to your computer if an virus came against it? would it work? maybe, maybe not. kinda depends on the virus right? and what if it didn't work? you would send it to the Mac docs to fix it right? most mac docs don't really deal with viruses because macs don't get them after all. now the fact that there aren't really any is entirely besides the point, but lets give apple its do… if they hadn't created a product no one could afford, then there would be viruses for it, and then you wouldnt be able to stick your nose in the air about it, now would you? That isnt intended to be offensive, thats just how, most but not all, apple users are. i do, howsoever, recommend that you can on the ball with a better Firewall/anti-virus…. yours seems to be out of date.

@mark, Boston MA

Indeed you are right, iPod touch can stream via Rhapsody now, and Spotify, from what I can see is not available in the US (though that can be gotten around).

To get the streaming from Rhapsody you'd still have to .. oh my,… subscribe(!). I thought one of the big knocks against the Zune was the whole subscription deal,…hmmmm.

And spotify, well, you gotta jump though hoops to get it in the US.

I guess I will amend my point and say the for US customers, iPods cannot stream wirelessly from anything close to a subscription library, unless you actually subscribe to one.

I'll grant you that makes the iPhone (if Rhapsody can work over 3G) pretty handy.

@ Bob, in Somerset, PA, who wrote:

Umm Dan… Why would someone want to pay 100 to 200 dollars more for something that does exactly the same thing as Zune HD? As always Apple way over charges for everything they sell.

What competing Apple device is it that does what the Zune does that costs $100 or $200 more?

The iPod touch is currently $199 for the 8GB, $299 for the 32GB.

The Zune HD is $219 for the 16GB, and $289 for the 32GB.

The entry level iPod touch is $20 less expensive than the entry level Zune HD and the 32GB iPod touch is only $10 more than the 32GB Zune HD. You could pay $399 for the 64GB iPod touch but that would be overkill to compete with the top Zune.

The players look price competitive to me.

@ Kremlin, in Palmyra VA, who commented:

Apple is good at what they do, which is graphics, but beauty is only skin deep, and that holds true for their computers. They cant multi-task at all like MS, and if you try to run 3 or more programs, you get bogged down. So MS has ablity, and Apple has looks. in this day and age, looks may win… but not for long. MS is old, but it isnt dead. i cant wait for the day when Apple is, finally, left with the option of either making an OS that can perform as well as look pretty, or die.

I regularly run over 15 full applications—and a host of plug-ins and other minor applications in the background—and see absolutly NO "bogging down" on my 24" Apple iMac (Mac OSX.6.1 Snow Leopard, 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM).

Right now, as I write this, I am running Safari, Mail, Microsoft Word, Excel, MT Newswatcher, iTunes, iPhoto, iCal, Pages, Firefox, Preview, Finder, KoolClip, TimeMachine, Calculator, and Pagestream (a DTP app), on the Mac, while, at the same time I am running Parallels with Windows7 running a Windows only vertical solution application one of my clients uses to manage his medical office, which is connected via VPN to the database at his office.

That's 17 Mac applications. In addition, the Virtual Machine Windows7 is also running some required Windows stuff in the background such as a couple of anti-malware apps.
My Mac is doing all of this all at the same time. I do not see any signs of anything "bogging down." The fact is, Macs multitask far better than do Windows machines.

I respectfully submit that you don't know what you are talking about.

You are apparently unaware that OSX is a fully certified UNIXâ„¢ and has all the capabilities that implies. It has the power as well as looking pretty and includes an intuitive, easy to understand user interface.

Its funny that I still come across comments on readers who thinks that Apple products are just good looks with limited substances, and they continue to believe MS offering tops Steve's creation. I think those guys are still stuck in Windows 95 era. Apple has the best line of computer and media products, with higher degree of functionality than PCs and MP3s competitors . They also have the highest reliabilities. Those are facts, and they are piece of cake to use. Nice try MS for Zune HD, but whatever Ballmer puts up, Steve always thought about it first.

@Hsep, Martinsville, VA

Dan Eran writes both pieces. EPIC FAIL Hsep.

@tiguerage,
No one but you remembers when Apple computers were nearly 100% of all computers sold because it never ever happened; it's just your bad memory. Just a thought…

@MG in Reston:
The iPod touch can stream wirelessly via apps – using Rhapsody today, and soon Spotify as well. What are you talking about?

@Brian, Honolulu, HA

Love how you copied all the FUD from AppleInsider without even giving them credit.

1. Proof please that the Zune HD has this issue.
2. Proof please. If the software on the Zune HD runs fine what does it matter that it's DDR1?
3. Proof please. It's rumored to get roughly 33hours of playback with music and 8.5 hours with video. Sounds pretty good to me.
4. Proof please. Nothing is stopping the HD Radio from picking up radio stations that don't use HD.
5. The screen is a direct 16:9 resolution. iPhone/iPod touch is not so while watching a video you don't get big black bars while on the Zune HD like you do on iPhone/iPod touch. So while the screen is smaller it doesn't necessarily translate into a worse user interface. In the end it all comes down what the user interface itself and if the Zune HD interface is clean, easy to read, and is responsive then who cares if it technically has a few pixels less? It doesn't take away from anything.

Gotta love the FUD spreaders!

Personally I'm hoping Zune HD does well so that we can get some good competition going on because this iPod Nano with camera crap is stupid.

its not about hattin apple its that microsoft puts out a better product, its just not for every one but niether is apple

Does anyone remember the time when Apple computers were nearly 100% of all computers sold?, and what percentage of the market they hold today?.
Just a thought…

One might have to wonder how Microsoft will seriously market this product after a enough people buy it and learn that; 1) OLED screen doesn't look at all great in the outdoors, it really is meant to be used in a dark room lit by candles like in the ads. 2) the Tegra processor is a 2 year old design that utilizes slower memory which results in some serious lag issues. 3) the battery life sucks. 4) the HD Zune is only marketed to US because HD radio does not stand for High Definition Radio and is not a worldwide standard. In fact it's only available in the US and the HD stands for hybrid digital. 5) the screen is actually smaller than the ipod touch and does not support HD video on the device, it has to be scaled down, the only HD output is via a dock.

I'm not saying it's all crap, but if Microsoft wanted to truly compete, they should at least use better technology in their product, not use older processors and market it as innovative, or an OLED screen that they market as better, by only showing it in ads where the unit is in darkened rooms.

Don't believe, try it, please try it.

@Kremlin
I think you are mistaken about that multi-task issue. Are you talking about the iPhone? I have both Windows and Mac OS and both multi-task quite well? In fact, my Macbook with 4 GB ram (running 64bit) handles exporting jpegs in lightroom, browsing, and chatting just fine. As I would expect my windows machines to do.

Interesting how the Apple fans claim M$ copied every aspect of the iPod with their Zune…yet they fail to realize that the latest iPod just copied the Zune by including a radio tuner – and just as they try to catch up in that arena M$ puts an HD radio tuner in the Zune.

Lack of a radio tuner was keeping me away from the iPod over the years – now I have a product that works well enough so I have no need to get the latest iPod that finally put a radio tuner in. I enjoy listening to music I picked, but I also like to hear what bands are playing at the clubs tonight, the morning radio shows, and maybe some new music I never knew existed (thus, the high value placed on a tuner for me).

again both devices complement each other and comparing them is like apples to oranges.

I was not impressed with either. I own the 2nd gen zune & Ipod and a 16GB Zune which I have never used.

Both are flimsy, have a horrible user interface, require another few hundred in not included 'accessories', cannot sync by dragging & dropping from windows media, must purchase a zune subscription for $14.99 a month for the zune.
the zune Hd cannot work with any of the previous generation of accessories either.

I'll tell you one thing all the zunes can do that the ipods cannot. Stream wirelessly from the marketplace.

With a Zune pass, I can steam any (ANY) song that I have acess to in the Zune marketplace so long as I have a wifi connection.

No ipod can do that because no ipod has access to that large a library because you'd have to pay for it all.

Oops. That's a helluva neat feature that I use when I'm doing yard work, grilling, working on car or oh, just about anything outside the house, or I can move around the house and keep the music going.

Now there's something iPods don't do.

Mind you, I'm not pro-MS, I run linux. But the ZUne does have its strengths.

In French, Zune means "penis". Yes, it's an embarrassment to carry a Zune. What a joke this company who show us the future of technology, each day of our life.

This is what Apple needs in the MP3 market: some competition. Because competition spurs further innovation and product improvement. No matter which one you like, the consumer wins. No one cares how much you think one is better than the other.

Zune HD. Well, finally Copysoft has something that can brag about, but still nothing special. Besides 720P for viewing on HDTV, there is nothing that iPod Touch or iPhone can't do. iPod Touch and iPhone are perfect pocket computers with great OS, and excellent functionality. iTunes is so well refined also, so who needs a Zune HD.

@rattyUK – A-HAHAHAHAHAAAAAA – Your "Roughly Drafted" piece that you link to was copied and pasted from Apple Insider. Credibility? NONE. You fail.

@flirtsquirt – The HD is not intended for the small screen size, it's intended for play on a full size monitor…say, a 50" plasma or the like. Let's see your ipod do THAT.

@ Freerange
Its interesting that you say MS is crap and just a copier of Apple products… just wondering here but the Wii is based on what again? Interactive PvP and PvC (player vs Computer if you will) right? And the Xbox did that first… well before the Wii at anyrate… and did it better as well. True you guys can stick MS at graphics and thats cool and all… and you have less viruses… true as well… But apple is a young pup with good ideas but pretty bad form. Meaning that apple creates nice products, sticks the apple logo and what not on it, and charges a couple hundred bucks for an ok product. Sounds alot like Harley Davidson. They make good bikes, but only the rich can afford it. Apple is good at what they do, which is graphics, but beauty is only skin deep, and that holds true for their computers. They cant multi-task at all like MS, and if you try to run 3 or more programs, you get bogged down. So MS has ablity, and Apple has looks. in this day and age, looks may win… but not for long. MS is old, but it isnt dead. i cant wait for the day when Apple is, finally, left with the option of either making an OS that can perform as well as look pretty, or die. Right now, looking pretty works for them, but they are guna get ugly the more and more they act like spoiled brats in a candy store. If their parents (CEO, shareholders etc.) dont get them to behave, then the Shop Owner ( the consumer) is going to kick them to the curb.

@Daniel Miami,FL: September 15, 2009 10:10 AM

Apple produces expensive products, that are generally not very good. I used a Macintosh once and I disliked it to the point where I just stopped using it.

Windows is not the best either. Linux is the best operating system around.

You also act like Apple is the greatest. It's not. You say Windows users want everyone to like them, SO DO YOU?!?!??!?!?

If the Apple Touch had HD first, those mocking it as overkill on the Zune, would consider it the greatest new advancement.

sorry M$ but at that screen size, HD video won't impress anyone.

From past experience with Microsoft products, specially the Zune. I agree with the article on the link below.
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/09/14/from-oled-to-tegra-five-myths-of-the-zune-hd/

Who is sick of these Apple haters? Me for one. Not just because I happen to own a macbook, iphone and ipod, but because Windows supporters seem to think everyone should be like them. Anyone who buys Apple is automatically pompous and just wants a fashion accessory right? Why do you care? I work in IT, so I know a little more than the average consumer about hardware, and the Zune is so "me too". NO ONE made a wildly successful MP3 player before an iPod was invented. Not Microsoft, not sony, none of your loved suppliers of PC hardware made an MP3 player as good. They still can't All you guys do is copy Apple. You copied the GUI, the gadgets, the search bar from Spotlight, the list goes on. Even the first Microsoft OS was outsourced! No originality, and now you're mad that another company is successful? Please take this piece of garbage, copied once again from Apple, and work on making Windows more stable and secure.

WOW HD…. or wait its the size of my hand. There is not way the HD is going to make a difference. Furthermore Apple seems to have a product that does all these things… and the kicker…. its also a phone.

the thing is that the original zune 2nd generation is now as useful as an expired monthly metro card — it is not compatabile with any zune software and the new zune HD is not compatible with any of the accessories for the 2nd gen zune like the av doc.

The zune is as closed off & restricted as Apple Ipod. You must purchase the 'zune pass' for $14.95 a month. Will not sync with windows media. I have found it a royal pain in the arse to use the Zune software to sync music. I gave up and now use my Sansa players exclusively. The zune & ipods sit in a drawer and never used

And XBOX 'changed console gaming'. yes the device only has a failure rate of 20% – 54% and is very user unfriendly with games costing between $60 – $100. I have 2 XBOX 360 elite consoles which I literally never use.

both devices are mutually exclusive and do different thigns. so many buy both the Ipod classic & zune HD. It isn't a question of either / or.

I await all the Apple fanboys to attack with their agenda comments as usual. LOL

Sorry, my comment was directed towards the statement Dan made and not FreeRange.

Umm Dan… Why would someone want to pay 100 to 200 dollars more for something that does exactly the same thing as Zune HD? As always Apple way over charges for everything they sell.

@FreeRange
"I'm still trying to figure out what this does that the iTouch doesn't. "

Well, for starters, it's not an Apple product. Aside from the fact that competition is good, there are people (like me) who prefer not to buy anything Apple.

Re: Freerange, obviously you've been living under a rock for the past 8 years and have failed to see how xbox and xbox live have come to dominate console gaming. Nobody gives Microsoft credit in this field. Before xbox live came out online console gameplay was crap at best. Sony decided to leave that component up to developers leading to an unstandardized hodgepoge of confusion for gamers. Microsoft saw the need to standardize and centralize in order for console gaming to succeed and when they released xbox live they took online console gaming to the level online pc gamers had enjoyed for years. Nobody, not Sony, not Nintendo,,, nobody innovated they way Microsoft did when it came to multiplayer console gaming.

I predict the zune HD will be a success. It won't kill the ipod but who would want it to? Competition is good for the market and the consumer.

"Put it all together and it appears to be an impressive product release for Redmond."

PED – you should have a look at Roughly Drafted's take down to see exactly what Microsoft are selling here.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/09/14/from-oled-to-tegra-five-myths-of-the-zune-hd/

ex ped: That was Jeff O'Brien's piece, not mine. But he's an excellent reporter and I suspect he stands by his story.

Only one problem – iPod sales have started to decline. This will continue since consumers are moving on to phones with similar capabilities. Looks like Microsoft will have an increasing share of a shrinking market. Too little, too late.

I guess Apple should just close up shop and return all its cash to the shareholders. They are obviously doomed. Michael Dell was right.

Of course it will still be an embarrassment. Its a zune and its from Microsoft – a company as uncool as you can get. And one that produces inferior products. Further, the subscription model has already proven itself to be ineffective in competing in the marketplace. You also have to love the MS quote from another article, "an internal team will manage app approval and that the emphasis here will be on quality over quantity" – its rolling on the floor laughable. MS can't even do this with their own products let alone someone else's. Why would anyone want MS controlling their digital life / entertainment.

I'm still trying to figure out what this does that the iTouch doesn't. Microsoft is touting this as a media devise and that's it which they seem to be proud of for some strange reason. The iPod did that back in 05 with the 5th gen iPod. And of course the itouch did it one better with the touch 2 years ago. it one ups the itouch 560p with 720p which will look just as good on any screen under 46".

The subscription may work for them so let them be the guinea pig on that one and watch them walk the plank. If it's a success Apple can then get on board and do it right and take most of their base.

I see the Zune competing more with an Apple TV and will have about the same success as the afore mentioned.

The thing is the iTouch has an app for any Zune feature. That's the genius behind Apple. You just can't win MS.