Apple > Dell + HP

@Adam

You're honestly saying that I should pay $600 for a Mac Mini with dual processors and 1 GB RAM and no keyboard or mouse, instead of $550 for an HP with quad processors , 8 GB RAM, keyboard and mouse, because years from now some sucker will pay me $300 for a Mac Mini that is underpowered today?!!?

But nobody will want a quad core 8GB PC in the furture? They'll prefer a dual core 1 GB Mac Mini?

You're just pulling my leg, right?

@ Vijay

Dell & HP may not have diversified into the same areas of technology as Apple, but they have diversified in other ways. Particularly HP who probably makes more money from printer ink than they do PCs.

@Tim.

I would much rather have had 10K put into AAPL in 1997 compared to DELL:

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/dynamic_charting.aspx?symbol=DELL&symbol=AAPL&selected=DELL

Compare to AAPL Date Range Max

From 1997 to present, DELL has done worse than the housing market:-)

Is this comparison even valid? Apple's revenues are not just based on computers. iPod and iPhone have brought significant revenue. Dell and HP are not in that market in any significant way.

Maket cap is not a company's size, its the valuation of its stock.

None of the comparisons in the comments below are actually comparing apples to apples.

Apple's actual sales in the last 12 months were $42.3B, and its Net Income was $8.343B, or $9.18 a share.
Apple's accounted for sales in the last 12 months were $34.6B and its NI was $5.175B, or $5.69 a share.

Because of deferred revenues on the iPhone, you get sales today that are going to be counted 2 years from now. Usually, that's not a problem, but during the 2+ year ramp up period while these deferrals are starting, the mismatch between GAAP and non-GAAP figures are huge. Just look at the above example.

So, those people doing PE calculations or looking at total sales or anyone using GAAP figures are missing the boat here.

Some more figures:

Actual, non-GAAP results:
Revenues:
Last 4 Qs = $42.3B
FY05 = $13.9B
Sales have tripled in less than 4 years.

Net Income:
Last 4 Qs = $8.3B
FY05 = $1.3B
Profit is over 6x greater in less than 4 years.

Apple has gotten such a large market cap because it is HUGELY profitable, and it is growing that profit rapidly.

Try changing your W/A search to "1997 market cap of Hewlett-Packard, dell, apple" and you get a lot more context for the quote.

In 1997, Apple had one foot in the grave and was falling the rest of the way in. Dell was having one of the best years any company has ever had.

Apple's stock performance has done well the last three years. It still hasn't done what Dell did in the late 90s. Bottom line, if you invested 10K in Apple and Dell in 1997, you'd still have a better return with Dell.

@Adam, Miami — Spending top money for a used and underpowered computer doesn't mean it is any good; it only proves PT Barnum's saying that there is a sucker born every minute.

Phil: We love whatever info you post on Apple.. it lights our fire!..

Just Praying for 3 things:

1 that Vodafone UK gets the iphone soon!
2 That the tablet mac is not just a rumor.
3 that it is released before Christmas.

and not praying but excited about the delivery of Snow Leopard.

See Paul Brunswick.. there are loads of people like me.. loads of potential..

Apple shapes technology on ways you obviously cannot imagine.. and they capitalize on that fact on ways that have been demonstrated:

– by the dominance of the ipod.

– Iphone is doing very well for being a newcomer.

- Mac Sales keep growing.

they beat forecasts comfortably which is great for the state of the world economy.

what other tricks they got under their sleeves?

that where the value is my brother.

@paul, … or is it? Share price is about potential, not what it is currently.

just means apple share price is inflated

I guess you could argue that Apple is bigger if all you consider is their market cap. Perhaps that's all that matters to an inventor with a short horizon, but check the numbers for total revenue and profit and you will see that HP is much larger company. If you're an option trader and don't care about dividends, then AAPL is the one for you. It goes up and down like a yo-yo. It's P/E today is at 27. Kind of reminds me of the dot com days.

"I’ll never forget Dell’s foolish words. Even then, he copied every move Apple made, so it was very offensive for him to make such a suggestion."

True. He built Dell's online store using Steve Job's webobjects. As soon as Jobs went back to Apple, Dell switched away from it.

Interesting how easy it is to compare companies by numbers. Guys stop measuring the companies by how they performed in the past. Try to make your outlook based on where will they be in 5y. and not only by numbers.

@Sermo

When you retire the Mac mini on Ebay you get back half the value, when you try to sell the HP pc no one wants it

The article is a clever ad for WolframAlpha.

I'll never forget Dell's foolish words. Even then, he copied every move Apple made, so it was very offensive for him to make such a suggestion.

I'll also not forget Steve Job's response. He said, "Mike, buddy, we are coming to get you!" Smiling all the way.

As far as comparing PCs on specs alone, it's like saying a Ferarri is no better than a escort because you can only drive 30 mph in the city anyhow.

I you compare market share of computers the numbers don’t add up. This article is skewed to make it sound like Apple is dominating the PC market. Apple must be getting there revenue from something other than computers?

Take a look:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/15/single_digit_growth_boosts_apples_share_of_us_pc_market_to_8_7.html

Sermo, if you buy something "square on", you will pay face value for the item. However, if you invest first and do so wisely, then your ROI will buy you whatever you want and you don't have to complain how much it costs. My apple items are earned this way. As a suggestion, go to an apple store. You will be pleasantly surprised as to how busy they are, even in this economy. When you are there, play with the mac. Maybe you'll like it.

Revenue may be greater for HP and Dell – they are in a bigger and larger marketplace, but they are not making much profit. Apple beats them hands down in that area.

Case in point: Apple owns the market for pc's costing more than $1000. In fact, they own 91% of it.

The moral of the story is why make small bucks in a big market when you can make big bucks in a small market.

Any thread long enough eventually succumbs to Internet Tough Guy Syndrome (ITGS). Look, really, we're all amazed that you can buy computers for next-to-nothing and spend your lifetime servicing them, but the rest of us have lives to lead.

I have had 2 Dells and 1 HP. They all broke down on me. I bought a Mac solely out of my dislike for Dell and HP, and to show MSFT that their grip on their monopoly is slipping.

I'm not an Apple fanboy by any means, but if for a few hundred bucks more I can get something reliable, I think it's worth it. So far so good.

Apple doesn't claim to be a computer company anymore; they're more of a personal electronics product company, so this is really comparing Apple(s) to Oranges.

Mr Dell should do good on his promise: shut down Dell and give the money back to the shareholders.

Apple is not in the same business as Dell and HP. Apple is in the entertainment business. HP and Dell are pure technology.

I'm glad Apple has got lots of money because they're never going to get a cent of mine.

I recently bought an HP PC with quad AMD processor and 8 GB RAM for $550 and free shipping. It's way better than the paltry Mac Mini I could have got for $600.

You can crunch numbers all day long and spin them to make any point.

There are three real questions to ask:

- Who is leading the industry with R&D?
- Who is gaining market share & creating new markets?
- Who is protecting the highest margins in its sector?

All during one of the worst economic climates in history.

There is one answer: Apple

For those who commented on looking at "revenue", do take note that Apple run a high-margin business, while Dell and HP's margin is cutthroat. They may sell a lot of PCs and Laptops, but they may be making little to nothing (lucky if they are not selling at a loss.)

I'm not making an argument for or against Apple's share price, but to use revenue as a metric is ridiculous. For example, GM's revenue is given as $128.7 billion and I don't think anyone would argue they're underpriced.

Revenue is important but more important is profit. The market is discounting Dell's ability to make future profits compared to Apple's ability. In the end it is better to sell $20b and make $5b than it is to sell $100b and make $1b.

And Sony (remember them?) with revenue of $78Bn has market cap of only $25Bn

@Robe

Apple's PE is something like 12 if you take into account the non-gaap earnings.

Perhaps Enterprise Value would be a better comparison.

Enterprise Value: This is the company’s market capitalization plus its net cash. It is how much cash it would take to buy the company and pay off all of its debts. For example, suppose the company’s market capitalization was $500 million because it had 10 million shares at $50 a share. Let’s say that company also has $300 million in debt and $50 million cash. In this case, the company’s enterprise value is $750 million.

Enterprise Values:
Apple: $119.1 Billion
Dell: $19.7 Billion
Hewlett Packard: $106 Billion
Google $119.6 Billion
Microsoft: $185 Billion

Revenue is useless if it doesn't make you any profit. A few other numbers to look at…

Earnings per share:
HP:$3.28
DELL:$1.25
AAPL:$5.09

Net profit margin:
HPQ:6.44%
DELL:2.61%
AAPL:15.79%

HP's $118 million in revenue only generated $7.7 million in net income.

AAPL's "paltry" $35 million generated %5.2 million in net income, almost as much as HP, but with 1/3 the revenues.

Still think revenue is most important? I'll take profit margins any day.

I'd rather have earnings than revenue.

said Michael who??

According to MacDailyNews.com, Apple could buy Dell outright with just the cash they have on hand.

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/21876/

Karma – she can be a bitch.

Perhaps this is just an indicator of how overpriced Apple stock is. From the same site-
Revenue
HP=$117.8 Billion
Dell=$57.37 Billion
Apple=$34.56 Billion

So what. The market cap is larger than Dell and HP combined. Lets look at another number …. Revenue. Different picture eh? In fact Dell and HP total revenue is 5 times larger than Apple. I'd take revenue over market cap any day.

Apple PE ratio is 27 while HP is half. Apples eventually falls down when it is ripe. So too with its technology namesake. Its overpriced!

$147 Bln for $38Bln of revenue compared to HP with $100bln for $138 bln of revenue. Who's worth more?