Is IE8 the Vista of Web browsers?

I hope blog journalism doesn't replace real stuff. Gutsy move admitting not using the product.

Your last "UPDATE" statement about people uninstalling IE8 is obviously incorrect and belies the facts (see http://marketshare.hitslink.com). If you looked at the charts instead of rehashing spin, its obvious the usage is greater on the weekend than on weekdays. If it goes down from Sunday to Monday is not sign of lack of adaption. Its a sign people need to go to work.

As far as IE8 goes, I personally have not noticed it being faster or slower. Speed really is not a big factor. Key thing is whether the page displays correctly. Microsoft have finally started following web standards (IE8 finally passes ACID2) which should be worthy of mentioning.

In summary, this article is really a cheap hit piece and deserves the negative comments it received.

I hope blog journalism doesn't replace real stuff. Gutsy move admitting not using the product.

Your last "UPDATE" statement about people uninstalling IE8 is obviously incorrect and belies the facts (see http://marketshare.hitslink.com). If you looked at the charts instead of rehashing spin, its obvious the usage is greater on the weekend than on weekdays. If it goes down from Sunday to Monday is not sign of lack of adaption. Its a sign people need to go to work.

As far as IE8 goes, I personally have not noticed it being faster or slower. Speed really is not a big factor. Key thing is whether the page displays correctly. Microsoft have finally started following web standards (IE8 finally passes ACID2) which should be worthy of mentioning.

In summary, this article is really a cheap hit piece and deserves the negative comments it received.

Dear Readers,

I would like to point out that the author of this article (Mr Philip Elmer-DeWitt) is not reporting anything. What he has done here is report what others are reporting. He himself says "I have not tested Internet Explorer 8…"

I seriously doubt if he has ever used Windows Vista either!

I would take anything reported by him with a grain of salt.

How can any author appear to be knowledgeable without doing any research of his own.

This is obviously the work of a slanted reported/columnist/whatever. Before taking anything seriously from him, I would advise you to check with your friend, acquaintances and knowledgeable sources before arriving at an opinion about Microsoft, Windows Vista and IE 8.

ex ped: Thanks, Deon, for weighing in. You're only the 109th reader to make that point.

Dear Readers,

I would like to point out that the author of this article (Mr Philip Elmer-DeWitt) is not reporting anything. What he has done here is report what others are reporting. He himself says "I have not tested Internet Explorer 8…"

I seriously doubt if he has ever used Windows Vista either!

I would take anything reported by him with a grain of salt.

How can any author appear to be knowledgeable without doing any research of his own.

This is obviously the work of a slanted reported/columnist/whatever. Before taking anything seriously from him, I would advise you to check with your friend, acquaintances and knowledgeable sources before arriving at an opinion about Microsoft, Windows Vista and IE 8.

ex ped: Thanks, Deon, for weighing in. You're only the 109th reader to make that point.

To chris in houston:

Oh? And you designed one better than microsoft?

I didn't think so.

Please sit down with the rest of the closed minded and keep your one dimensional comments to yourself.

You probably wouldn't know a decent OS if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.

If you took care of your OS like you should with anything else you own, IE: house, car, etc., you would have no room to complain.

I have had the same install of XP since '04 and have had no infections and no failures of equipment.

decent: de-cent -adjective:

suitable; appropriate

Example: She did not have a decent coat for the cold winter.

Not a fanboy as I agree vista wasn't so great for custom computers.

But that's just it: CUSTOM computers.

Worked great on prebuilt brands like dell and sony. But I'm not a prebuilt type of guy when it comes to my home computer.

I've seen 7. looks ok. alot like vista but I'm sure there have been improvements.

That being said I've been using IE8 ever since the first beta came out and there's hardly anything wrong with it.*

*Nothing that I can notice.

I strongly encourage you to go and download IE8 and use it for a few months with an open, unbiased opinion and see if you don't like it just as well. Especially before you go and review something you haven't even SEEN yet.

To chris in houston:

Oh? And you designed one better than microsoft?

I didn't think so.

Please sit down with the rest of the closed minded and keep your one dimensional comments to yourself.

You probably wouldn't know a decent OS if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.

If you took care of your OS like you should with anything else you own, IE: house, car, etc., you would have no room to complain.

I have had the same install of XP since '04 and have had no infections and no failures of equipment.

decent: de-cent -adjective:

suitable; appropriate

Example: She did not have a decent coat for the cold winter.

Not a fanboy as I agree vista wasn't so great for custom computers.

But that's just it: CUSTOM computers.

Worked great on prebuilt brands like dell and sony. But I'm not a prebuilt type of guy when it comes to my home computer.

I've seen 7. looks ok. alot like vista but I'm sure there have been improvements.

That being said I've been using IE8 ever since the first beta came out and there's hardly anything wrong with it.*

*Nothing that I can notice.

I strongly encourage you to go and download IE8 and use it for a few months with an open, unbiased opinion and see if you don't like it just as well. Especially before you go and review something you haven't even SEEN yet.

I downloaded IE8 on Friday and I love it.

And just so you know, the whole Microsoft-bashing thing just isn't cool anymore.

I downloaded IE8 on Friday and I love it.

And just so you know, the whole Microsoft-bashing thing just isn't cool anymore.

Firefox is the end all of browsers. Its free and fast. Its also more secure then IE, end of story. Microsoft cant even design a decent OS. I guess we'll see with 7 what vista should have been

Firefox is the end all of browsers. Its free and fast. Its also more secure then IE, end of story. Microsoft cant even design a decent OS. I guess we'll see with 7 what vista should have been

The shrinking of MS OS market share may have more to do with the free opensource OS distributions (ie: Ubuntu) making huge leaps towards better driver support and usability. I know of several businesses that are switching to Ubuntu for the majority of their workstations who would have never even considered that option two years ago.

The shrinking of MS OS market share may have more to do with the free opensource OS distributions (ie: Ubuntu) making huge leaps towards better driver support and usability. I know of several businesses that are switching to Ubuntu for the majority of their workstations who would have never even considered that option two years ago.

I don't really see why everyone hates vista and IE8. I have three computers in my home and they are all running vista. I think that vista is 10X faster than xp and it is easier to use as well. Also I have used Firefox and IE7 and IE8, but I perfer IE just becuiase it works better for me. Firefox is also good , but i don't find it as good as IE. People should look at the big picture and try out all the different OS's out there and the Intyernet browsers out there too before they beat on other company's products they have never used. (Besides experts reviews are complete garbage most of the time anyways) lol

I don't really see why everyone hates vista and IE8. I have three computers in my home and they are all running vista. I think that vista is 10X faster than xp and it is easier to use as well. Also I have used Firefox and IE7 and IE8, but I perfer IE just becuiase it works better for me. Firefox is also good , but i don't find it as good as IE. People should look at the big picture and try out all the different OS's out there and the Intyernet browsers out there too before they beat on other company's products they have never used. (Besides experts reviews are complete garbage most of the time anyways) lol

Downloaded IE8, however like Mark in SF same problem . I think I'll stick with the old version.

Downloaded IE8, however like Mark in SF same problem . I think I'll stick with the old version.

I think everyone is missing the entire point of this article. It is not about IE8, and the author makes no assertion that he is an expert. The focus is really on the market conditions and how Microsoft of losing market share with its blunders, real or perceived.

To simply write him off as another fanboy is easy enough, but the graphs presented are a harsh reality.

And no he is not assuming all Firefox users are using OS X. Those were seperate graphs, one is browser usage, showing growth by BOTH Firefox and Safari (30 million internet capable iPhones/iTouches cant be hurting).

Microsoft is losing the attention of the average consumer. While Macs are still out of the price range for most people, they have an easy choice to change browsers. Microsoft needs to seriously evaluate what it needs to do to convince IT Management to upgrade systems to Vista.

I think everyone is missing the entire point of this article. It is not about IE8, and the author makes no assertion that he is an expert. The focus is really on the market conditions and how Microsoft of losing market share with its blunders, real or perceived.

To simply write him off as another fanboy is easy enough, but the graphs presented are a harsh reality.

And no he is not assuming all Firefox users are using OS X. Those were seperate graphs, one is browser usage, showing growth by BOTH Firefox and Safari (30 million internet capable iPhones/iTouches cant be hurting).

Microsoft is losing the attention of the average consumer. While Macs are still out of the price range for most people, they have an easy choice to change browsers. Microsoft needs to seriously evaluate what it needs to do to convince IT Management to upgrade systems to Vista.

Mr. DeWitt,

So, what you are telling us is that Windows Vista, a single OS, has roughly the same install base (20%) as Apple's entire OS line (22%)? Wow, they've done a terrible job!

I should also point out that XP had been around for 6+ years before Vista and you might expect that in 6 years that more people would have bought an OS than in the last 2. But that's just logic battling the "I'm a MAC so you're an idiot" mentality that this article espouses.

Don't get me wrong, Apple does a lot of things right. If you want to do graphic design or have a simple, easy to use machine that is completely uncustomizable in anything but a trivial manner, I have no problem with a MAC … but they need some serious work on their LDAP support before they will ever be more than a niche market of trendy college kids and graphic designers.

BTW, when you want to do anything that isn't completely inside the 'MAC box' are you allowed? or does Apple come along and rain down fire and brimstone? (think jailbreaking your iPhone if you have any doubts that they won't)

Mr. DeWitt,

So, what you are telling us is that Windows Vista, a single OS, has roughly the same install base (20%) as Apple's entire OS line (22%)? Wow, they've done a terrible job!

I should also point out that XP had been around for 6+ years before Vista and you might expect that in 6 years that more people would have bought an OS than in the last 2. But that's just logic battling the "I'm a MAC so you're an idiot" mentality that this article espouses.

Don't get me wrong, Apple does a lot of things right. If you want to do graphic design or have a simple, easy to use machine that is completely uncustomizable in anything but a trivial manner, I have no problem with a MAC … but they need some serious work on their LDAP support before they will ever be more than a niche market of trendy college kids and graphic designers.

BTW, when you want to do anything that isn't completely inside the 'MAC box' are you allowed? or does Apple come along and rain down fire and brimstone? (think jailbreaking your iPhone if you have any doubts that they won't)

I wonder why PC WORLD tested the same browsers and found IE8 to be faster? Not enough to matter, run what you want who cares what everyone else runs?

I wonder why PC WORLD tested the same browsers and found IE8 to be faster? Not enough to matter, run what you want who cares what everyone else runs?

It is incompatible with an HP add-on using Vista on an HP Pavillion dv9700 and hijacked being able to restore to previous settings on any day. That's never happened before. I had to disable it because it also wasn't allowing apps to open suggesting I had no interenet connection when I did. I cannot recommend it.

It is incompatible with an HP add-on using Vista on an HP Pavillion dv9700 and hijacked being able to restore to previous settings on any day. That's never happened before. I had to disable it because it also wasn't allowing apps to open suggesting I had no interenet connection when I did. I cannot recommend it.

Wow this was a horrible article. Boring. Useless graphs with little detail besides the so called point you had were an awesome addition… Oh and by the way, you had a point didn't you?

Wow this was a horrible article. Boring. Useless graphs with little detail besides the so called point you had were an awesome addition… Oh and by the way, you had a point didn't you?

To Mr Elmer-DeWitt,

Normally, it would agree with your critics. You didn't try so therefore you can't critize it. However, that's not always true. There are times when one has enough knowledge, that one can spot crap a mile away. Vista was one of those products. Unfortunately, I did install IE8. I'm not impressed. Did anybody notice the similarity to Firefox? I may give Chrome another try!

To Mr Elmer-DeWitt,

Normally, it would agree with your critics. You didn't try so therefore you can't critize it. However, that's not always true. There are times when one has enough knowledge, that one can spot crap a mile away. Vista was one of those products. Unfortunately, I did install IE8. I'm not impressed. Did anybody notice the similarity to Firefox? I may give Chrome another try!

Useless post – inaccurate, unauthentic and biased. I tested IE 8 and it is really fast. If author notices 0.008 seconds when loading a web page he must be a genius!

Useless post – inaccurate, unauthentic and biased. I tested IE 8 and it is really fast. If author notices 0.008 seconds when loading a web page he must be a genius!

Gosh, and you thought only Mac users were touchy on such subjects. The Windows crowd seems to have a cult following of their own!

Gosh, and you thought only Mac users were touchy on such subjects. The Windows crowd seems to have a cult following of their own!

I don't doubt the data that competing browsers can be faster, and better than ie8 but wonder why you would write so much about a browser you don't even care to try for yourself. It reduces your credibility and makes me think that you are just writing this article to increase web traffic and advertising revenue to your column. I think you have gotten to your position because of your skills, that being said, keep them sharp, get you hands dirty and write about things that you know and have experience in rather than something that will get the most attention with horrible copy and paste images. At least others who test and review ie 8 have used and tested it compared to other browsers. I must be great to write opinions for things you don't want to even try to test yourself, give my info to whoever gave you this position, tell them I'll write all day about things I don't have hands on experience with. Apple is a great company but even they educate themselves hands on about their competition.

I don't doubt the data that competing browsers can be faster, and better than ie8 but wonder why you would write so much about a browser you don't even care to try for yourself. It reduces your credibility and makes me think that you are just writing this article to increase web traffic and advertising revenue to your column. I think you have gotten to your position because of your skills, that being said, keep them sharp, get you hands dirty and write about things that you know and have experience in rather than something that will get the most attention with horrible copy and paste images. At least others who test and review ie 8 have used and tested it compared to other browsers. I must be great to write opinions for things you don't want to even try to test yourself, give my info to whoever gave you this position, tell them I'll write all day about things I don't have hands on experience with. Apple is a great company but even they educate themselves hands on about their competition.

Dear Sir,

It is simply disappointly to see people like you use a public forum to bash any company's product without any first-hand knowledge or use of that product. At-least Steve Ballmer demonstrates a high sense of loyalty for products made by the company that he loves. You, on the other hand, are just a loose cannon that seems to get high from picking random quotes from other peoples' writing. You make your living by throwing stones at products without having any idea about the effort that goes into building a product that is used daily by many hundred million people across the world.

Regards,

A disgusted reader

Dear Sir,

It is simply disappointly to see people like you use a public forum to bash any company's product without any first-hand knowledge or use of that product. At-least Steve Ballmer demonstrates a high sense of loyalty for products made by the company that he loves. You, on the other hand, are just a loose cannon that seems to get high from picking random quotes from other peoples' writing. You make your living by throwing stones at products without having any idea about the effort that goes into building a product that is used daily by many hundred million people across the world.

Regards,

A disgusted reader

How embarrassing this must be for you “FANBOY”. I already installed IE8 this morning and instantly noticed the increased in speed. When I saw your article I found it interesting considering my experience. After Googleing for reviews in the last 24 hours; turns out anyone who has actually tested IE8 on a stable computer found out the same thing I did it even beats Firefox on many pages. Great journalism… you know, I saw the plains hit the WTC on TV; maybe I could write an article on what is was like to be there 

BTW My preferred browser is Opera

ex ped: Really? See here.

How embarrassing this must be for you “FANBOY”. I already installed IE8 this morning and instantly noticed the increased in speed. When I saw your article I found it interesting considering my experience. After Googleing for reviews in the last 24 hours; turns out anyone who has actually tested IE8 on a stable computer found out the same thing I did it even beats Firefox on many pages. Great journalism… you know, I saw the plains hit the WTC on TV; maybe I could write an article on what is was like to be there 

BTW My preferred browser is Opera

ex ped: Really? See here.

Wow, why don't you use it and form your own honest opinion?

Are you scared you might acutally like it, and then know you have live with the lie the rest of your life?

Typical Mac user….the people who flocked to mac becase of the cool commercials or the ipod are starting to come back to Microsoft…..they knew it was too good to be true!

Wow, why don't you use it and form your own honest opinion?

Are you scared you might acutally like it, and then know you have live with the lie the rest of your life?

Typical Mac user….the people who flocked to mac becase of the cool commercials or the ipod are starting to come back to Microsoft…..they knew it was too good to be true!

Who would have thunk a biased review (using or not using the product) of a Microsoft Product would have come out of the Apple Blogs. You sir, are unfortunately, the definition of a fanboy – where you bash competitors without a fair comparison, let alone giving them a try. To discredit your opinion even more, the article is poorly put together. Regalress, I would like you to note in your article that even though Apple's OS gained a 4% market share (which I'm sure doesnt include the windows vitualization) and Safari's market share only grew 3%….coincidence?

Who would have thunk a biased review (using or not using the product) of a Microsoft Product would have come out of the Apple Blogs. You sir, are unfortunately, the definition of a fanboy – where you bash competitors without a fair comparison, let alone giving them a try. To discredit your opinion even more, the article is poorly put together. Regalress, I would like you to note in your article that even though Apple's OS gained a 4% market share (which I'm sure doesnt include the windows vitualization) and Safari's market share only grew 3%….coincidence?

So, this guy does not even try to use it. I am sure his office has a Windows pc somewhere. This is more like a political commentary than a tech one.

I have both a pc and a mac and the browser is not the ultimate marvel MS would want you to think it is, but it is certainly at par with Firefox 3.1 beta 3.

If you are going to evaluate MS products, get a mid level PC. Do not let your personal opinions cloud your judgment.

So, this guy does not even try to use it. I am sure his office has a Windows pc somewhere. This is more like a political commentary than a tech one.

I have both a pc and a mac and the browser is not the ultimate marvel MS would want you to think it is, but it is certainly at par with Firefox 3.1 beta 3.

If you are going to evaluate MS products, get a mid level PC. Do not let your personal opinions cloud your judgment.

IE8 is an unmitigated disaster. I *HAVE* used it, first the Release Candidate and now the actual Release, and both are plagued by catastrophic design flaws. Microsoft's entire woolly mess of useless – and ungovernable – "add-ons", "plug-ins", "accelerators", "search providers", "inprivate filters" and the like, and their impotent and defective "Add-on Manager", conspire to bog down and complicate the browsing experience, waterboarding users with flawed controls and function barriers that are completely idiotic and serve no purpose whatsoever. Multiplying software 'creatures' and calling them 'features' doesnt give users anything of practical benefit, just more error messages and confusion.

While I find XPsp3 to be – finally – the ultimate stable, debugged O/S and have no use for Apple or Eunuchs, the safest, cleanest, most powerful, and – by far – fastest browser is, without contest, Opera. Its lightning fast rendering of webpages, even with two dozen other page tabs already open, is every bit the "six times faster than IE" which Opera claims, and probably a lot more so.

I have also been experimenting with Firefox v.3.0.7, and its almost as buggy and crash-prone as IE8. Neither of these are stable or should be out there in public as though it were a finished product. Browsers that lock up with just one or two tabs open, and have to be "Process-Tree" ended via Task Manager just to shut them down and get rid of them are not desktop worthy. Microsoft and Firefox developers should heed Dean Wormer's advice: "Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life, son…" Their 'Animal House' approaches to web client engineering compare very poorly with Opera's Volvo-like Scandinavian safety and precision. In five years of 16+ hours/day intensive, aggressive web usage, I have yet to experience a single virus or security problem through Opera, but have taken hits through even momentary excursions with MSIE.

Never again. This latest, worst Microsoft browser, which I've reloaded and uninstalled three times (on an otherwise now flawless and bulletproof XP console) is the last MS product I expect to ever contend with.

IE8 is an unmitigated disaster. I *HAVE* used it, first the Release Candidate and now the actual Release, and both are plagued by catastrophic design flaws. Microsoft's entire woolly mess of useless – and ungovernable – "add-ons", "plug-ins", "accelerators", "search providers", "inprivate filters" and the like, and their impotent and defective "Add-on Manager", conspire to bog down and complicate the browsing experience, waterboarding users with flawed controls and function barriers that are completely idiotic and serve no purpose whatsoever. Multiplying software 'creatures' and calling them 'features' doesnt give users anything of practical benefit, just more error messages and confusion.

While I find XPsp3 to be – finally – the ultimate stable, debugged O/S and have no use for Apple or Eunuchs, the safest, cleanest, most powerful, and – by far – fastest browser is, without contest, Opera. Its lightning fast rendering of webpages, even with two dozen other page tabs already open, is every bit the "six times faster than IE" which Opera claims, and probably a lot more so.

I have also been experimenting with Firefox v.3.0.7, and its almost as buggy and crash-prone as IE8. Neither of these are stable or should be out there in public as though it were a finished product. Browsers that lock up with just one or two tabs open, and have to be "Process-Tree" ended via Task Manager just to shut them down and get rid of them are not desktop worthy. Microsoft and Firefox developers should heed Dean Wormer's advice: "Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life, son…" Their 'Animal House' approaches to web client engineering compare very poorly with Opera's Volvo-like Scandinavian safety and precision. In five years of 16+ hours/day intensive, aggressive web usage, I have yet to experience a single virus or security problem through Opera, but have taken hits through even momentary excursions with MSIE.

Never again. This latest, worst Microsoft browser, which I've reloaded and uninstalled three times (on an otherwise now flawless and bulletproof XP console) is the last MS product I expect to ever contend with.

Just because other idiots write reviews about products they never use doesn't mean you should do it too. (btw: I have a bridge for you to jump off of)

Besides that, you are basing your entire opinion from one other person's opinion of it being slow. You know what opinions are like right? Maybe that person is running a computer without enough ram or maybe its 5 years old (a lifetime in computing).

That's like me saying, Macs suck because they don't run hardly any software.

ex ped: Did that read like a product review? As for IE8's speed, Mossberg is hardly the only reviewer who found it slow. ComputerWorld's headline, for example, reads:

"New IE8 still the slowest browser

Microsoft's final code comes in dead last in JavaScript benchmark tests"

See here.

Just because other idiots write reviews about products they never use doesn't mean you should do it too. (btw: I have a bridge for you to jump off of)

Besides that, you are basing your entire opinion from one other person's opinion of it being slow. You know what opinions are like right? Maybe that person is running a computer without enough ram or maybe its 5 years old (a lifetime in computing).

That's like me saying, Macs suck because they don't run hardly any software.

ex ped: Did that read like a product review? As for IE8's speed, Mossberg is hardly the only reviewer who found it slow. ComputerWorld's headline, for example, reads:

"New IE8 still the slowest browser

Microsoft's final code comes in dead last in JavaScript benchmark tests"

See here.

It´s good to read about this things.

But, when firefox 2 arrived for download, many people called it "the perfect browse" "with this one is impossible to be infected" "this browser doesn´t have flaws like ie".

Now, looking that the numbers, firefox is getting near IE so fast in the bugs, that will surpass all IE even before going to version 4. And firefox is the program that has more updates in all world.

IT´s good that the people started to use some other browsers to get new things.

But then compare it to something made by Apple?

Apple is the monopoly. Everything that can be connected to any apple product must be payed to apple. If i make a game and want to sell it do apple computers, i need to pay apple to sell my product or the product won´t get into the market and i could be taked to court to pay fees to apple because i violated there hardware.

That´s something that microsoft never did… and strangely, everyone takes microsoft to court because they abuse there position on the market… but the ones that attack apple never get into court because apple pays them before the waves start to flow. (remember the ipod batteries?)

It´s good to read about this things.

But, when firefox 2 arrived for download, many people called it "the perfect browse" "with this one is impossible to be infected" "this browser doesn´t have flaws like ie".

Now, looking that the numbers, firefox is getting near IE so fast in the bugs, that will surpass all IE even before going to version 4. And firefox is the program that has more updates in all world.

IT´s good that the people started to use some other browsers to get new things.

But then compare it to something made by Apple?

Apple is the monopoly. Everything that can be connected to any apple product must be payed to apple. If i make a game and want to sell it do apple computers, i need to pay apple to sell my product or the product won´t get into the market and i could be taked to court to pay fees to apple because i violated there hardware.

That´s something that microsoft never did… and strangely, everyone takes microsoft to court because they abuse there position on the market… but the ones that attack apple never get into court because apple pays them before the waves start to flow. (remember the ipod batteries?)

Another apple fanboy with no idea of what they are talking about…

Care to comment on the recent pwn2own competition where the worlds best hackers stated OSX and Safari are "laughable" when it comes to security. A Macbook Air running Safari 4 with all the latest security updates fell in seconds. Sure IE8 fell too, but not as fast as the mac. All the hackers clearly stated that the lack of security built into Macs makes them any easy target.

ex ped: It feels strange to be called an Apple fanboy. The real fanboys call me Elmer FUD and accuse me of carrying Steve Ballmer's water. In any event, I don't believe any browser — except maybe Chrome — came out of Pwn2Own with their drawers on. IE8 got broken too and it was only one day old.

Another apple fanboy with no idea of what they are talking about…

Care to comment on the recent pwn2own competition where the worlds best hackers stated OSX and Safari are "laughable" when it comes to security. A Macbook Air running Safari 4 with all the latest security updates fell in seconds. Sure IE8 fell too, but not as fast as the mac. All the hackers clearly stated that the lack of security built into Macs makes them any easy target.

ex ped: It feels strange to be called an Apple fanboy. The real fanboys call me Elmer FUD and accuse me of carrying Steve Ballmer's water. In any event, I don't believe any browser — except maybe Chrome — came out of Pwn2Own with their drawers on. IE8 got broken too and it was only one day old.

Some

articles are saying that IE8 is faster if only slightly than firefox, I'd like to know where you are getting your information from

Some

articles are saying that IE8 is faster if only slightly than firefox, I'd like to know where you are getting your information from

Let me preface this with saying that I'm a webmaster for a living.

I think what the author really missed here is that IE8 is a major performance improvement over IE7, especially with dynamic websites making heavy use of AJAX and CSS. IE8 is also the first version to score 100 on the Acid2 rendering tests.

Microsoft is finally starting to listen to the development community at-large, and we're the group that they've alienated the most over the past few years. This is progress, and should be rewarded.

I favor Chrome and Firefox from a performance and development (and also idealistic) stand-point, but I mostly use IE. Why? Because that's what 80% of visitors to the sites I build are using. IE isn't going away, and I want to make sure that what the majority of my users are seeing is pixel-perfect.

The IE team is starting to listen to our needs. They're not there yet, but it seems like they are making a huge attempt to reconnect with the technology world, and are listening to us in the Beta process more than ever. That gives me some hope that more good things are yet to come.

Let me preface this with saying that I'm a webmaster for a living.

I think what the author really missed here is that IE8 is a major performance improvement over IE7, especially with dynamic websites making heavy use of AJAX and CSS. IE8 is also the first version to score 100 on the Acid2 rendering tests.

Microsoft is finally starting to listen to the development community at-large, and we're the group that they've alienated the most over the past few years. This is progress, and should be rewarded.

I favor Chrome and Firefox from a performance and development (and also idealistic) stand-point, but I mostly use IE. Why? Because that's what 80% of visitors to the sites I build are using. IE isn't going away, and I want to make sure that what the majority of my users are seeing is pixel-perfect.

The IE team is starting to listen to our needs. They're not there yet, but it seems like they are making a huge attempt to reconnect with the technology world, and are listening to us in the Beta process more than ever. That gives me some hope that more good things are yet to come.

Ok Apple fanboy..how bout you spout more propaganda to promote your investments in Apple stock. Pathetic review…uh..hey tiger. How about actually using something before commenting. This is the worst type of journalism possible and CNNMoney should be ashamed to print such drivel. Please hire people who know what a review means and how to write one!

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

Ok Apple fanboy..how bout you spout more propaganda to promote your investments in Apple stock. Pathetic review…uh..hey tiger. How about actually using something before commenting. This is the worst type of journalism possible and CNNMoney should be ashamed to print such drivel. Please hire people who know what a review means and how to write one!

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

It's so funny to continuously hear Apple proponents talk about how much better the world would be if they were king. A tired story told over and over again by the wannabes of history. If the Apple products are so good, let them speak for themselves instead of continously bashing the top dogs.

It's so funny to continuously hear Apple proponents talk about how much better the world would be if they were king. A tired story told over and over again by the wannabes of history. If the Apple products are so good, let them speak for themselves instead of continously bashing the top dogs.

Maybe I missread, but is this guy just assuming all FireFox marketshare as Mac OS marketshare?

"…(That green slice, by the way, represents the Mac OS’s growing share.)"

That's a load of BS. Maybe he's unaware FireFox is availible for more than one OS?

"…Hence the growing green (Firefox) and red (Safari) slices in the second chart."

Bit of a rediculous article, not because it's bashing Microsoft, who cares? I guess reading this felt a little bit like watching Fox news.

Maybe I missread, but is this guy just assuming all FireFox marketshare as Mac OS marketshare?

"…(That green slice, by the way, represents the Mac OS’s growing share.)"

That's a load of BS. Maybe he's unaware FireFox is availible for more than one OS?

"…Hence the growing green (Firefox) and red (Safari) slices in the second chart."

Bit of a rediculous article, not because it's bashing Microsoft, who cares? I guess reading this felt a little bit like watching Fox news.

This review is terrible. How can anyone review a product without actually using it? This is highly opinionated garbage and is a bastardized approach to journalism.

ex ped: Did that read like a product review?

This review is terrible. How can anyone review a product without actually using it? This is highly opinionated garbage and is a bastardized approach to journalism.

ex ped: Did that read like a product review?

Hmmm, based on microsofts past endeavours, I am not hopeful. Let me explain.

I use a PC at work with XP, I have a thinkpad with Vista installed that I use for specialist apps at home, I can say that I have only had a few wrinkles with Vista, if anything it seems bulky compared to XP, and certain vista features drive me nuts. I prefer XP over vista from a userbility standpoint.

That being said, I did get frustrated with PC's in general about 5 years back and took a chance and bought a Macbook and can say that I am really happy. So much so, that I have owned 3 successive macbooks over the years, going from OSX panther to tiger to leopard without any problems whatsoever and I mean that, NO problems experienced. I like the look and feel of the apple and the userability. It is a bit different to a PC and takes a little time to get used to, but after that initial period, it becomes a joy to use. Just my personal preference, I am not slating MS software…

As for browsers, I like safari, it is not as feature rich as IE or firefox, but catching up and for simple browsing, it is more than adequate.

I typically use IE or firefox for special stuff like online banking, a lot of the banks online systems do not work well with Safari which is a shame.

MS do seem to come to market with apps that seem to not have been tested as stringently as you would expect from a company the size of MS. MS give a hard date for release then if they hit a problem, they have to work all the hours God sends to fix it, or worse release it and fix it with an update which is rather frustrating.

That being said, it is equally frustrating that apple will say a new release is coming in summer, but not actually release until fall. However, when they do finally release it, it is stable.

Again, I am not slating MS, they could do things better, and Apple could also do things better, my persoanl preference though is to go with Apple and OSX, which incidently can be bought stand alone without having to buy a machine, although I am not sure if it will work on a PC platform (Outside my expertise) despite running on Intel architecture.

Hmmm, based on microsofts past endeavours, I am not hopeful. Let me explain.

I use a PC at work with XP, I have a thinkpad with Vista installed that I use for specialist apps at home, I can say that I have only had a few wrinkles with Vista, if anything it seems bulky compared to XP, and certain vista features drive me nuts. I prefer XP over vista from a userbility standpoint.

That being said, I did get frustrated with PC's in general about 5 years back and took a chance and bought a Macbook and can say that I am really happy. So much so, that I have owned 3 successive macbooks over the years, going from OSX panther to tiger to leopard without any problems whatsoever and I mean that, NO problems experienced. I like the look and feel of the apple and the userability. It is a bit different to a PC and takes a little time to get used to, but after that initial period, it becomes a joy to use. Just my personal preference, I am not slating MS software…

As for browsers, I like safari, it is not as feature rich as IE or firefox, but catching up and for simple browsing, it is more than adequate.

I typically use IE or firefox for special stuff like online banking, a lot of the banks online systems do not work well with Safari which is a shame.

MS do seem to come to market with apps that seem to not have been tested as stringently as you would expect from a company the size of MS. MS give a hard date for release then if they hit a problem, they have to work all the hours God sends to fix it, or worse release it and fix it with an update which is rather frustrating.

That being said, it is equally frustrating that apple will say a new release is coming in summer, but not actually release until fall. However, when they do finally release it, it is stable.

Again, I am not slating MS, they could do things better, and Apple could also do things better, my persoanl preference though is to go with Apple and OSX, which incidently can be bought stand alone without having to buy a machine, although I am not sure if it will work on a PC platform (Outside my expertise) despite running on Intel architecture.

The funniest part about all this is that the ones who say they are "in the know" should also know that you can make any 2 applications perform just as good as the other if you are "in the know". Vista? I have a Vista machine that runs just as fast and bug-free as Ubuntu (meaning they both rarely give me problems). Why? Because I KNOW how to configure both. Just because M$ likes to put their configurations deeper into the menu structures doesn't mean you can't configure them how you want. Anyone "in the know" knows this. I use different OS's depending on which application runs best on that platform for my uses, not because one is better than the other. Web browsers are the same way. I can configure one to perform just as well as another.

The only ones who claim they are "in the know" and say one is better than another means they are the very definition of a fanboy.

The funniest part about all this is that the ones who say they are "in the know" should also know that you can make any 2 applications perform just as good as the other if you are "in the know". Vista? I have a Vista machine that runs just as fast and bug-free as Ubuntu (meaning they both rarely give me problems). Why? Because I KNOW how to configure both. Just because M$ likes to put their configurations deeper into the menu structures doesn't mean you can't configure them how you want. Anyone "in the know" knows this. I use different OS's depending on which application runs best on that platform for my uses, not because one is better than the other. Web browsers are the same way. I can configure one to perform just as well as another.

The only ones who claim they are "in the know" and say one is better than another means they are the very definition of a fanboy.

So – how is an admittedly uninformed (and apparently proud of it) opinion about a Windows piece of software related to Mac news?

It used to be that FUD was attributed to Microsoft press releases. These days it tends to come from those who love the worlds most proprietary and close computer company (that would be Apple – Objective C, iPhone app licensing, give me a break).

So – how is an admittedly uninformed (and apparently proud of it) opinion about a Windows piece of software related to Mac news?

It used to be that FUD was attributed to Microsoft press releases. These days it tends to come from those who love the worlds most proprietary and close computer company (that would be Apple – Objective C, iPhone app licensing, give me a break).

Maddawg:

I agree with the poster who pointed out that those who ARE very knowledgeable about computers and programming seem to unanimously lambast Vista for a number of reasons. Typically, those in the know prefer Unix based OS such as Linux and Apple's OSX. They give you freedom to configure how your computer actually works instead of Microsoft deciding for you, and deciding what is typically a very bloated and inefficient solution.

Also – nearly all computers come with Vista pre installed. However, people hate it so much that manufacturers still offer the option to ship with XP and sometimes even Linux. And, they are abandoning Vista for a new OS only a few years after its release…

Maddawg:

I agree with the poster who pointed out that those who ARE very knowledgeable about computers and programming seem to unanimously lambast Vista for a number of reasons. Typically, those in the know prefer Unix based OS such as Linux and Apple's OSX. They give you freedom to configure how your computer actually works instead of Microsoft deciding for you, and deciding what is typically a very bloated and inefficient solution.

Also – nearly all computers come with Vista pre installed. However, people hate it so much that manufacturers still offer the option to ship with XP and sometimes even Linux. And, they are abandoning Vista for a new OS only a few years after its release…

Brad -

You no longer have to pay $2000 for a Mac. A pretty decent machine (spec-wise) with a durable aluminum unibody is the $1300 Macbook. The cheaper plastic one is only $1000, and it's still better than crap from Toshiba that falls apart in two years.

I've owned multiple Thinkpads (the only relatively reliable/sturdy laptops of the PC variety) for 8 years now at home and at work. However, in my current T60 the hard drive already failed twice, and Windows XP acted up countless times. Vista? I won't even go there.

At this point I have reached my limit of frustration and will be buying a Mac in the next 6 months.

Brad -

You no longer have to pay $2000 for a Mac. A pretty decent machine (spec-wise) with a durable aluminum unibody is the $1300 Macbook. The cheaper plastic one is only $1000, and it's still better than crap from Toshiba that falls apart in two years.

I've owned multiple Thinkpads (the only relatively reliable/sturdy laptops of the PC variety) for 8 years now at home and at work. However, in my current T60 the hard drive already failed twice, and Windows XP acted up countless times. Vista? I won't even go there.

At this point I have reached my limit of frustration and will be buying a Mac in the next 6 months.

Hey Philip –

You know how Apple fanboys often flock to the comment stream if there is something negative about Apple?

Well, today Microtards really did an awesome job of going completely nuts even at a mere assumption that anything could be wrong with their dearly beloved world of Redmond domination.

Wow! I have to give the prize for mob behavior to Microtards over Apple fanboys this time.

I think your article was just fine — speculative a bit, but you have the right to speculate on a blog.

P.S. I'm a modest fan of Apple, though not a fanboy.

Hey Philip –

You know how Apple fanboys often flock to the comment stream if there is something negative about Apple?

Well, today Microtards really did an awesome job of going completely nuts even at a mere assumption that anything could be wrong with their dearly beloved world of Redmond domination.

Wow! I have to give the prize for mob behavior to Microtards over Apple fanboys this time.

I think your article was just fine — speculative a bit, but you have the right to speculate on a blog.

P.S. I'm a modest fan of Apple, though not a fanboy.

Todd, I can assure you that operating systems are not free. When you buy a new computer, the cost of the operating system installed is built into the price you pay for the computer. And yes, they do still sell operating systems seperately.

Todd, I can assure you that operating systems are not free. When you buy a new computer, the cost of the operating system installed is built into the price you pay for the computer. And yes, they do still sell operating systems seperately.

To: Walt Mossberg's Lapdog,

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in this article.

That Windows lost 4% marketshare in 2 years when they finally switched to a competitive processors? You also contend the ramp-up to Vista is slow because Vista is a bad OS? Have you looked at graphs for transition rates from Windows 98 to 2000? or 2000 to XP? Those rates are just as slow. The majority of people don't upgrade computers, they buy new ones with new software. You can contend that upgrades happen in business and they've been slower than normal. I don't ever see Apple in business environments and a lot can be tied back to significant erroding IT budgets in the past 4 years.

I think in 6 to 9 month's you'll see Apple's marketshare decline again, maybe only a point or two, but still a decline. I'm an Apple user with a powerbook in need of replacement. Do I go out and drop $2000 for a new Apple laptop or do I get the comparable Dell for $1200. I think as people realize in this economy that $800 is a lot of money they'll start switching back to cheaper Windows.

I hope you write that article when Apple stumbles as our conspicuous consumption and economy of excess tapers down.

ex ped: You bet I will! That's what I do. That's what I live for!

To: Walt Mossberg's Lapdog,

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in this article.

That Windows lost 4% marketshare in 2 years when they finally switched to a competitive processors? You also contend the ramp-up to Vista is slow because Vista is a bad OS? Have you looked at graphs for transition rates from Windows 98 to 2000? or 2000 to XP? Those rates are just as slow. The majority of people don't upgrade computers, they buy new ones with new software. You can contend that upgrades happen in business and they've been slower than normal. I don't ever see Apple in business environments and a lot can be tied back to significant erroding IT budgets in the past 4 years.

I think in 6 to 9 month's you'll see Apple's marketshare decline again, maybe only a point or two, but still a decline. I'm an Apple user with a powerbook in need of replacement. Do I go out and drop $2000 for a new Apple laptop or do I get the comparable Dell for $1200. I think as people realize in this economy that $800 is a lot of money they'll start switching back to cheaper Windows.

I hope you write that article when Apple stumbles as our conspicuous consumption and economy of excess tapers down.

ex ped: You bet I will! That's what I do. That's what I live for!

Interesting, ex ped, when I go to microsoft's site, I still find plenty of references to it as a beta release, but I too could be wrong. Maybe microsoft just hasn't cleaned up their site yet.

ex ped: The word "beta" did not appear in Microsoft's press release yesterday, and they did refer to it as the "final" browser. See here.

Interesting, ex ped, when I go to microsoft's site, I still find plenty of references to it as a beta release, but I too could be wrong. Maybe microsoft just hasn't cleaned up their site yet.

ex ped: The word "beta" did not appear in Microsoft's press release yesterday, and they did refer to it as the "final" browser. See here.

Phil, IE8 is in beta, it is not a final release. Anyone who's done much beta testing knows that that's usually where the performance enhancements come. And as for your shot about Microsoft not bothering to make their products work on non-windows systems, as your own article points out, Microsoft holds an 89% market share. It would not be as cost effective for them to make sure their software works on that 11%. Where as Mac has no choice but to make sure their stuff works on windows, because they have a pathetic 10% market share.

ex ped: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought what Microsoft released yesterday was the final version.

Phil, IE8 is in beta, it is not a final release. Anyone who's done much beta testing knows that that's usually where the performance enhancements come. And as for your shot about Microsoft not bothering to make their products work on non-windows systems, as your own article points out, Microsoft holds an 89% market share. It would not be as cost effective for them to make sure their software works on that 11%. Where as Mac has no choice but to make sure their stuff works on windows, because they have a pathetic 10% market share.

ex ped: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought what Microsoft released yesterday was the final version.

Regarding the comments above about Vista having 90% of the OS sales… I say, 'You must be joking!'. Most OS ARE NOT SOLD! They are free. You can't even go out and buy OSX without buying the machine with it. Your argument is weak as is your reasoning! Wake up M$ cult followers! Microsoft has been sucking some serious wind the last few years because quite nearly everything do is simply a poor copy of what someone else already did right.

Regarding the comments above about Vista having 90% of the OS sales… I say, 'You must be joking!'. Most OS ARE NOT SOLD! They are free. You can't even go out and buy OSX without buying the machine with it. Your argument is weak as is your reasoning! Wake up M$ cult followers! Microsoft has been sucking some serious wind the last few years because quite nearly everything do is simply a poor copy of what someone else already did right.

While he halfheartedly makes decent points about the market…

I love that Phil defends himself with, "It's okay that I didn't review the product I reviewed for 2 reasons: 1) you can get better reviews and commentary elsewhere 2) Microsoft doesn't use Apple products, so I'm not a hypocrite."

How juvenile!

ex ped: Er, I think you missed the point. Two points, in fact. The Techcrunch article wasn't a review; it was an analytical piece that says by concentrating only on its installed base, Microsoft is ignoring a full one third of the market. As Schonfeld writes: "If you’ve already left IE for a speedier browser, IE8 is not going to bring you back, and Microsoft knows it." The point of the Steve Ballmer quotes is not that Microsoft doesn't use Apple products, it's that like a politician who refuses to mention his opponent's name, Microsoft's CEO acts as if there are no products except the ones that Redmond builds.

While he halfheartedly makes decent points about the market…

I love that Phil defends himself with, "It's okay that I didn't review the product I reviewed for 2 reasons: 1) you can get better reviews and commentary elsewhere 2) Microsoft doesn't use Apple products, so I'm not a hypocrite."

How juvenile!

ex ped: Er, I think you missed the point. Two points, in fact. The Techcrunch article wasn't a review; it was an analytical piece that says by concentrating only on its installed base, Microsoft is ignoring a full one third of the market. As Schonfeld writes: "If you’ve already left IE for a speedier browser, IE8 is not going to bring you back, and Microsoft knows it." The point of the Steve Ballmer quotes is not that Microsoft doesn't use Apple products, it's that like a politician who refuses to mention his opponent's name, Microsoft's CEO acts as if there are no products except the ones that Redmond builds.

There is no need to waste time to build Apple a MS Browser. It is that simple.

Why dont people get it???

There is no need to waste time to build Apple a MS Browser. It is that simple.

Why dont people get it???

What is amazing is you even had the audacity to publish this. You make assumptions that IE8 is the Vista of Web Browsers, yet you don't even take the time to do research before you post? Welcome to the age of lazy and incompetent journalists. Perhaps your article was good, I for one didn't read a sentence after "I have not tested Internet Explorer 8."

What is amazing is you even had the audacity to publish this. You make assumptions that IE8 is the Vista of Web Browsers, yet you don't even take the time to do research before you post? Welcome to the age of lazy and incompetent journalists. Perhaps your article was good, I for one didn't read a sentence after "I have not tested Internet Explorer 8."

Vista has 90% market share of all new OSs sold, and will sell 400 million copies by end of 2009. It might be weak in quality vs MacOS but it is trouncing it in sales.

Vista has 90% market share of all new OSs sold, and will sell 400 million copies by end of 2009. It might be weak in quality vs MacOS but it is trouncing it in sales.

"bottom line, if you don’t like something, don’t use it.

if you can’t understand something, ADMIT it, and then go use the technologically noobie devices that don’t take any brainPower…..that’s why they’re made!"

No one is using it… That is the point of the article. Most enterprise customers were forced to use it to keep the deep discounts. The consumer market for Vista is dead. You are one of the stragglers.

-Hexzero

"bottom line, if you don’t like something, don’t use it.

if you can’t understand something, ADMIT it, and then go use the technologically noobie devices that don’t take any brainPower…..that’s why they’re made!"

No one is using it… That is the point of the article. Most enterprise customers were forced to use it to keep the deep discounts. The consumer market for Vista is dead. You are one of the stragglers.

-Hexzero

If I ever see the writer of this article in the street I'm kicking his @ss!

If I ever see the writer of this article in the street I'm kicking his @ss!

I use Vista since it came with my new laptop. It's about the same as XP. So I don't really see any case for spending 5 years development on it. There are a few things that are useful (but buggy) like the indexed search and widgets. Still these could have easly been added to XP.

To me it seems that Microsoft is still stuck in the times of trying to dominate the standards instead of creating something useful for people.

I use Vista since it came with my new laptop. It's about the same as XP. So I don't really see any case for spending 5 years development on it. There are a few things that are useful (but buggy) like the indexed search and widgets. Still these could have easly been added to XP.

To me it seems that Microsoft is still stuck in the times of trying to dominate the standards instead of creating something useful for people.

I always enjoy reading an product review from someone who has not even tried the product. I am sure you are as good at a taste test (without trying it) as you are a software tester without using it. How about you write an article on how to cure cancer? You seem to know the same amount about both subjects!!

ex ped: Did that read like a product review?

I always enjoy reading an product review from someone who has not even tried the product. I am sure you are as good at a taste test (without trying it) as you are a software tester without using it. How about you write an article on how to cure cancer? You seem to know the same amount about both subjects!!

ex ped: Did that read like a product review?

Maddawg:

Seriously, I don't think you know what you're talking about. You think that people who "know anything about computers" think that Vista is good? The reverse is true from my experience, those who arn't proficient in IT generally like Vista and everyone else I know can't stand it. Someone I know (a music producer so not a "iTarded idiot") recently installed Vista on his PC and couldn't work out why over 60% of his RAM had already been used on boot up. If Vista was twice the operating system there might be some justification, but with Windows 7 using around the same resources as XP and still managing to make improvements, there really is no need for this OS to be installed. Indeed, I've removed it from several laptops, including my own. If it was such a great piece of software then why has it got such a short lifecycle? M$ wouldn't normally abandon software after a couple of years and only one service pack. I mean, now even the defrag tool doesn't give any information other than telling you it might take a while, if anything is for "noobies" it's Vista.

PS. I'm typing this on Vista Enterprise, which I have been using at work for the past year and a half.

Maddawg:

Seriously, I don't think you know what you're talking about. You think that people who "know anything about computers" think that Vista is good? The reverse is true from my experience, those who arn't proficient in IT generally like Vista and everyone else I know can't stand it. Someone I know (a music producer so not a "iTarded idiot") recently installed Vista on his PC and couldn't work out why over 60% of his RAM had already been used on boot up. If Vista was twice the operating system there might be some justification, but with Windows 7 using around the same resources as XP and still managing to make improvements, there really is no need for this OS to be installed. Indeed, I've removed it from several laptops, including my own. If it was such a great piece of software then why has it got such a short lifecycle? M$ wouldn't normally abandon software after a couple of years and only one service pack. I mean, now even the defrag tool doesn't give any information other than telling you it might take a while, if anything is for "noobies" it's Vista.

PS. I'm typing this on Vista Enterprise, which I have been using at work for the past year and a half.

All you people who use only one system wether it be windows or mac or linux; you are small. Each of you railing against the systems you do not prefer. Blind loyalty does not make your favorite program more useful or appealing to people unfamiliar with it. Instead of wailing about how mac is "bad" or microsoft is "slow" or linux is "the best" why not take some time and really explain why you like what you like and just forget to mention anything else.

All you people who use only one system wether it be windows or mac or linux; you are small. Each of you railing against the systems you do not prefer. Blind loyalty does not make your favorite program more useful or appealing to people unfamiliar with it. Instead of wailing about how mac is "bad" or microsoft is "slow" or linux is "the best" why not take some time and really explain why you like what you like and just forget to mention anything else.

Get a life everyone…. It's just a browser…

Get a life everyone…. It's just a browser…

You tell them maddawg! It's not like Microsoft was targeting the average consumer with Vista, they only wanted the uber elite people that know it all like yourself. Anyone else can just go to hell! Oh wait…. Microsoft was targeting the entire market…

Note to the editor, those pie charts are ugly.

You tell them maddawg! It's not like Microsoft was targeting the average consumer with Vista, they only wanted the uber elite people that know it all like yourself. Anyone else can just go to hell! Oh wait…. Microsoft was targeting the entire market…

Note to the editor, those pie charts are ugly.

Pc's and Mac's are completely different machines and trying to compare them is about as useful as a chicken with teeth.Visa is a very good OS if you half way know what you're doing on a computer.

Pc's and Mac's are completely different machines and trying to compare them is about as useful as a chicken with teeth.Visa is a very good OS if you half way know what you're doing on a computer.

I had a good few laughs with all of the "ex ped: Did that read like a review?" responses. Someone is pretty butt hurt.

No it didn't read like a REAL review. It did read like some half-assed article that was spit out for the sole purpose of needing to comment on MS's new browser.

I'm no MS fan boy by a long shot and am a happy Firefox user, but that doesn't mean I'm going to criticize a competing product based off of secondary resources and mention the main critique of 'being slow.' Which, by the way, is fairly hilarious as it is one of the least important things(I wont rehash so you can read the other comments).

Also lol(?) at the IT tech of 10 years that didn't have a cert in Apple's OSs??? What sort of IT tech is that?

I had a good few laughs with all of the "ex ped: Did that read like a review?" responses. Someone is pretty butt hurt.

No it didn't read like a REAL review. It did read like some half-assed article that was spit out for the sole purpose of needing to comment on MS's new browser.

I'm no MS fan boy by a long shot and am a happy Firefox user, but that doesn't mean I'm going to criticize a competing product based off of secondary resources and mention the main critique of 'being slow.' Which, by the way, is fairly hilarious as it is one of the least important things(I wont rehash so you can read the other comments).

Also lol(?) at the IT tech of 10 years that didn't have a cert in Apple's OSs??? What sort of IT tech is that?

I can't believe CNN lets stuff like this get printed. How are you going to write a story about something you've never tried. That's like writing about chocolate cake without ever tasting it, or writing about the Pyramids in Egpyt without having actually stood there looking at them. You can read other reviews and look at vidoes all you want, but why don't you man up, try the product, and form a real opinion?

I can't believe CNN lets stuff like this get printed. How are you going to write a story about something you've never tried. That's like writing about chocolate cake without ever tasting it, or writing about the Pyramids in Egpyt without having actually stood there looking at them. You can read other reviews and look at vidoes all you want, but why don't you man up, try the product, and form a real opinion?

lol….

vista is only a bad OS to those techno noobies that can't do anything but browse the web and run Word.

for anyone with a real understanding of computers, and no, i don't mean you typical idiots that can put in a memory module and think you actually know anything about computers, vista is very good.

(i'd get into the nuts and bolts of why but 99.999% of you will get a glossed over 'deer in the headlights' glaze in your eyes)

you know the types, the whining, lemming, iTarded idiots that couldn't tell you the difference between a byte and a nibble.

(no pun intended)

bottom line, if you don't like something, don't use it.

if you can't understand something, ADMIT it, and then go use the technologically noobie devices that don't take any brainPower…..that's why they're made!

lol….

vista is only a bad OS to those techno noobies that can't do anything but browse the web and run Word.

for anyone with a real understanding of computers, and no, i don't mean you typical idiots that can put in a memory module and think you actually know anything about computers, vista is very good.

(i'd get into the nuts and bolts of why but 99.999% of you will get a glossed over 'deer in the headlights' glaze in your eyes)

you know the types, the whining, lemming, iTarded idiots that couldn't tell you the difference between a byte and a nibble.

(no pun intended)

bottom line, if you don't like something, don't use it.

if you can't understand something, ADMIT it, and then go use the technologically noobie devices that don't take any brainPower…..that's why they're made!

"Which makes we wonder…"… fix that.

"Which makes we wonder…"… fix that.

Why don't you all get out more you sad little geeks?

Why don't you all get out more you sad little geeks?

Don't have the guy writing the article make comments about something he's never used. You have wasted my time and I don't care for your opinion.

Don't have the guy writing the article make comments about something he's never used. You have wasted my time and I don't care for your opinion.

Internet explorer is averall faster than Firefox, see for apropiate and proffesional revisions : http://www.pcworld.com/article/161616/browser_showdown_ie_8_vs_firefox.html

Internet explorer is averall faster than Firefox, see for apropiate and proffesional revisions : http://www.pcworld.com/article/161616/browser_showdown_ie_8_vs_firefox.html

I tried but stopped using IE8. I heard it was good and had great features and I even agree. However it is quite noticeably slow, especially when starting a new tab.

I'm not tied to any browser. Tried chrome but my back button won't work with it.

I'm happy with Firefox for now. If MS speeds up IE8 I might switch.

I tried but stopped using IE8. I heard it was good and had great features and I even agree. However it is quite noticeably slow, especially when starting a new tab.

I'm not tied to any browser. Tried chrome but my back button won't work with it.

I'm happy with Firefox for now. If MS speeds up IE8 I might switch.

Obviously not have used IE8. Installed IE8 at work today and it seems faster than Opera or Firefox that I have installed as well. Of course this is on basic work stuff and not much web 2.0 AJAX.

As for difference between IE8 and IE7/6, it's a NECESSARY upgrade due to the speed increase if you have to use IE.

Obviously not have used IE8. Installed IE8 at work today and it seems faster than Opera or Firefox that I have installed as well. Of course this is on basic work stuff and not much web 2.0 AJAX.

As for difference between IE8 and IE7/6, it's a NECESSARY upgrade due to the speed increase if you have to use IE.

Not only I've overcome the fear to change to Firefox as my default web browser, now my Laptop is running only on Linux-KDE. And to be honest, I have not missed a bit or a bite of Windows. Specially the costs. Even Openoffice.org is a great and free option to MS Office. There are great options in the open source world to be explored.

Not only I've overcome the fear to change to Firefox as my default web browser, now my Laptop is running only on Linux-KDE. And to be honest, I have not missed a bit or a bite of Windows. Specially the costs. Even Openoffice.org is a great and free option to MS Office. There are great options in the open source world to be explored.

Sloppy and stupid, screen shots looks like they were taken with a mobile phone from 1995. As a lifelong Microsoftee since 1994 I realize that Vista is/was a silver turd, I "used" it and hated it, IE7 is infantile compared to FF3 (for users not developers), Office 2007 is horrible, I actually used all of them. I have an opinion of them because I actually used them for a period of time longer than a brain fart…hint, hint!

Note to "writer": must expand World experience…must not write article on cell phone in Starbucks after a heavy night on the town…must expand knowledge of mysterious OS called Windows…

Sloppy and stupid, screen shots looks like they were taken with a mobile phone from 1995. As a lifelong Microsoftee since 1994 I realize that Vista is/was a silver turd, I "used" it and hated it, IE7 is infantile compared to FF3 (for users not developers), Office 2007 is horrible, I actually used all of them. I have an opinion of them because I actually used them for a period of time longer than a brain fart…hint, hint!

Note to "writer": must expand World experience…must not write article on cell phone in Starbucks after a heavy night on the town…must expand knowledge of mysterious OS called Windows…

Try the browser before you write a column on it. Doing this would make your argument stronger.

Try the browser before you write a column on it. Doing this would make your argument stronger.

No no no people, reject Internet Explorer because it's not web standard compliant, not because it's slow. The lack of speed (and of security) is just a superficial bi-product of this poor design.

Web Standard Compliance = Increased website innovation, and happy developers

No no no people, reject Internet Explorer because it's not web standard compliant, not because it's slow. The lack of speed (and of security) is just a superficial bi-product of this poor design.

Web Standard Compliance = Increased website innovation, and happy developers

Sweet goodness, did you make those crummy pie charts on your Mac? Nasty . . . .

Sweet goodness, did you make those crummy pie charts on your Mac? Nasty . . . .

I see some confused people here – anyone with previous comments, who's looking at just the fact that the author didn't use IE8. The author made a very important statement in the opening lines – "No IE8 for Macs" – then add all the latest MS server technologies that don't exactly work under the rest of the browsers and we can see the Monopoly picture repeating again. It doesn't matter how good IE8 is, while one is falling into a trap. Oh, and what is the deal with processing CSS differently from W3C standards, and the rest of the browsers (note the plural!)?

I see some confused people here – anyone with previous comments, who's looking at just the fact that the author didn't use IE8. The author made a very important statement in the opening lines – "No IE8 for Macs" – then add all the latest MS server technologies that don't exactly work under the rest of the browsers and we can see the Monopoly picture repeating again. It doesn't matter how good IE8 is, while one is falling into a trap. Oh, and what is the deal with processing CSS differently from W3C standards, and the rest of the browsers (note the plural!)?

the author of this piece sounds like a completely uninformed dolt.

the author of this piece sounds like a completely uninformed dolt.

This is pathetic journalism. You haven't tried the product and you are reviewing it.

I am very disappointed. I expect better for CNN.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

This is pathetic journalism. You haven't tried the product and you are reviewing it.

I am very disappointed. I expect better for CNN.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

I am a Software Developer and installed IE 8 in fall of 2008. I have to say it was the worst piece of software I've ever laid my hands on. I haven't used IE for regular use since 2004 when Firefox came out with a new version. I only use IE for testing purposes because majority of the world still uses it. And even in software testing this browser is a nightmare. AJAX never performs the way it should. Javascript is all gaga. CSS renders different from what it would in Firefox or Chrome. It's less memory intensive than Firefox but with all the updates I've had since I installed IE 8, I cannot uninstall it for the fear that it would mess up other Windows Applications since all Windows products are so closely connected (I know this by experience, IE 6 beta uninstall, had to reinstall XP on desktop back then).

Hope they make it better.

I am a Software Developer and installed IE 8 in fall of 2008. I have to say it was the worst piece of software I've ever laid my hands on. I haven't used IE for regular use since 2004 when Firefox came out with a new version. I only use IE for testing purposes because majority of the world still uses it. And even in software testing this browser is a nightmare. AJAX never performs the way it should. Javascript is all gaga. CSS renders different from what it would in Firefox or Chrome. It's less memory intensive than Firefox but with all the updates I've had since I installed IE 8, I cannot uninstall it for the fear that it would mess up other Windows Applications since all Windows products are so closely connected (I know this by experience, IE 6 beta uninstall, had to reinstall XP on desktop back then).

Hope they make it better.

I have to agree with most comments. I used Internet Explorer browser for years now, I also tried Firefox, Chrome, trying to make up my mind about it. The honest fact is that even if IE is a bit slower than others in certain specific benchmarks, I do not believe it is visible to the naked eye of more than 90% of the people. Coming from an Apple fanboy who admits he may never use it, I find this article pretty much useless and wonder how and why CNN would post that on the main Tech page…

I have to agree with most comments. I used Internet Explorer browser for years now, I also tried Firefox, Chrome, trying to make up my mind about it. The honest fact is that even if IE is a bit slower than others in certain specific benchmarks, I do not believe it is visible to the naked eye of more than 90% of the people. Coming from an Apple fanboy who admits he may never use it, I find this article pretty much useless and wonder how and why CNN would post that on the main Tech page…

More like: Vista is the IE of windows releases. Regardless of which version, IE is a garbage browser. Unless MS adapts an open source rendering engine (webkit; gecko) they are going to see steady decline.

More like: Vista is the IE of windows releases. Regardless of which version, IE is a garbage browser. Unless MS adapts an open source rendering engine (webkit; gecko) they are going to see steady decline.

You have to laugh how everyone gets so defensive about their favourite browser. Jason, Merrifield commenting on an Apple vunerability like Mozilla never had one – please!

Lets face it, the browser market is about personal preference, we don't need clarity on that.

I still see worth in this article, I am a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, along with Citrix, Netware and many others. At home I have a Mac, with Safari and Firefox on it. I also have VMWare Fusion running XP, Vista, Windows 7, Server 2003 and 2008. I use different browsers every day and I have my own preference and it's not IE. Due to how Safari integrates with my computer "lifestyle" I prefer it, after recently swithcing from a long stint using Firefox.

The author of this article CLEARY stated he hadn't used IE8, perhaps you all need to get over it. He was merely having his say on what he knew, what's wrong with that? If you want an opinion of someone who HAS used it, go read THEIR article and stop commenting on this one!

You have to laugh how everyone gets so defensive about their favourite browser. Jason, Merrifield commenting on an Apple vunerability like Mozilla never had one – please!

Lets face it, the browser market is about personal preference, we don't need clarity on that.

I still see worth in this article, I am a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, along with Citrix, Netware and many others. At home I have a Mac, with Safari and Firefox on it. I also have VMWare Fusion running XP, Vista, Windows 7, Server 2003 and 2008. I use different browsers every day and I have my own preference and it's not IE. Due to how Safari integrates with my computer "lifestyle" I prefer it, after recently swithcing from a long stint using Firefox.

The author of this article CLEARY stated he hadn't used IE8, perhaps you all need to get over it. He was merely having his say on what he knew, what's wrong with that? If you want an opinion of someone who HAS used it, go read THEIR article and stop commenting on this one!

I'm not suprised another article from an Apple lover slamming Microsoft about a product they haven't even used. Even why they try to say a MSFT product has gotten better they find a way to make it appear flawed.

I'm not suprised another article from an Apple lover slamming Microsoft about a product they haven't even used. Even why they try to say a MSFT product has gotten better they find a way to make it appear flawed.

This is clearly an blog entry, not a serious news story. I don't expect the contents to be "serious" journalism – it's clearly the author's opinion. I'm curious to see over the long-term how IE8 performs. I'm also interested how increased browser competition will change the Internet landscape over time.

This is clearly an blog entry, not a serious news story. I don't expect the contents to be "serious" journalism – it's clearly the author's opinion. I'm curious to see over the long-term how IE8 performs. I'm also interested how increased browser competition will change the Internet landscape over time.

Firefox FTW. No reason to EVER use IE.

Firefox FTW. No reason to EVER use IE.

Sandy hit the nail on the head.

Apple fanboy talk from a major publication?

so much for "journalism"

All I see is this guy using IE8 as an excuse to print a bunch of graphs about how much "micro$oft sux!!11" (and considering he hasnt actually used the browser, I challenge anyone to argue that point)

Sandy hit the nail on the head.

Apple fanboy talk from a major publication?

so much for "journalism"

All I see is this guy using IE8 as an excuse to print a bunch of graphs about how much "micro$oft sux!!11" (and considering he hasnt actually used the browser, I challenge anyone to argue that point)

This article sounds like the Republican campaign against Obama when they had nothing realistic to say but wanted to bash anyway so they took whatever little thing might sound bad and blew it up like it was the whole deal-breaker. I dislike Vista but this article on IE 8 sounds real skewed.

This article sounds like the Republican campaign against Obama when they had nothing realistic to say but wanted to bash anyway so they took whatever little thing might sound bad and blew it up like it was the whole deal-breaker. I dislike Vista but this article on IE 8 sounds real skewed.

Was there really a desire to make a point about slipping MS market share here? If your rebuttal had been "I was just trying to point out the market share part" and left it at that, then it would seem like you were inserting a disclaimer at the head of the article. Instead, you're rebuttal just reinforces the perception I got on my first read that you're trying out sensationalism in order to gain comment count in your blog.

Was there really a desire to make a point about slipping MS market share here? If your rebuttal had been "I was just trying to point out the market share part" and left it at that, then it would seem like you were inserting a disclaimer at the head of the article. Instead, you're rebuttal just reinforces the perception I got on my first read that you're trying out sensationalism in order to gain comment count in your blog.

Is EI8 the Vista of Web browsers? Why don't you answer the question, Phillip? You respond by pretty much saying that you've seen reviews and heard people say that it's slower than all of the other web browsers. Then you go on to ramble on about some irrelevent pixelated pie graphs for the other 70% of the article. It seems to me that you're a Mac article writer writing at the slightest chance to make Microsoft look bad. You have absolutely nothing to show IE8 IS bad.

Is EI8 the Vista of Web browsers? Why don't you answer the question, Phillip? You respond by pretty much saying that you've seen reviews and heard people say that it's slower than all of the other web browsers. Then you go on to ramble on about some irrelevent pixelated pie graphs for the other 70% of the article. It seems to me that you're a Mac article writer writing at the slightest chance to make Microsoft look bad. You have absolutely nothing to show IE8 IS bad.

Insert the other peoples comments here for me too.

Nice write-up Phil. Quite possibly the worst attempt at being a journalist I have ever seen.

Congratulations are in order though… this is classic and consistent CNN.

Insert the other peoples comments here for me too.

Nice write-up Phil. Quite possibly the worst attempt at being a journalist I have ever seen.

Congratulations are in order though… this is classic and consistent CNN.

How about using something before reviewing it and get some graphs that don't look like they were done in MS Paint.

How about using something before reviewing it and get some graphs that don't look like they were done in MS Paint.

I am not sure why you write an article without using the product. I think you are couting on popular anger against Vista. Please use products before commenting. Journalism comes with a responsibility. Responsibility of telling the TRUTH.

I am not sure why you write an article without using the product. I think you are couting on popular anger against Vista. Please use products before commenting. Journalism comes with a responsibility. Responsibility of telling the TRUTH.

I agree from Paul in Sydney. How can I write an article reviewing something…..without actually using it. Are you kidding me? It's like Roger Ebert saying he hated a movie from seeing the previews and reading other reviews.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

I agree from Paul in Sydney. How can I write an article reviewing something…..without actually using it. Are you kidding me? It's like Roger Ebert saying he hated a movie from seeing the previews and reading other reviews.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

I'd have to agree with most of the others that have posted here. If you have not played with a product, you have absolutely no business writing a review of that product. I could jsut as easily post an "article" about how horrible the MacOS is, since I've never used it and have no interest in doing so.

Spend your time writing about the things you know. Don't waste our time, or insult our intelligence, writing about stuff you admit you know nothing about.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

I'd have to agree with most of the others that have posted here. If you have not played with a product, you have absolutely no business writing a review of that product. I could jsut as easily post an "article" about how horrible the MacOS is, since I've never used it and have no interest in doing so.

Spend your time writing about the things you know. Don't waste our time, or insult our intelligence, writing about stuff you admit you know nothing about.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

I haven't read this article and probably never will, but I have it on good authority that the author is of a lesser calibre than others on the market.

I haven't read this article and probably never will, but I have it on good authority that the author is of a lesser calibre than others on the market.

For those wanting a real opinion on IE8 please follow this link:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/03/mix09-internet-explorer-8-released-progress-unmistakable.ars

Even keeping up with some of the major tech websites would have helped you create at least a passable article…

For those wanting a real opinion on IE8 please follow this link:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/03/mix09-internet-explorer-8-released-progress-unmistakable.ars

Even keeping up with some of the major tech websites would have helped you create at least a passable article…

This might be single worst article I have even seen written.

This might be single worst article I have even seen written.

I haven't used it, but i'm going to review it.

One word…Wow.

You are a true journalist my friend.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

I haven't used it, but i'm going to review it.

One word…Wow.

You are a true journalist my friend.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

What does it feel like to sped 15 minutes doing some vague google searches on IE8 and then turn that into an article?

I should have stopped reading after the first line but instead I took the time to read the rest of the drivel that you are calling a submission. Is this supposed to be investigative journalism, a review piece, or just typical Mac user bashing?

I have used IE8 in both Windows 7 and XP environments and its not bad. It hasn't made me want to switch from Firefox but its better than previous versions and is at least usable now.

As far as your graphs how bout at least including a legend. I intentionally resized the article (in IE8 and FF) and your words don't really line up with the graphs at all and take away from what you were (uninformed) trying to accomplish in the article. (Which I still am on the fence about, you are a Mac user, stick to Safari)

What does it feel like to sped 15 minutes doing some vague google searches on IE8 and then turn that into an article?

I should have stopped reading after the first line but instead I took the time to read the rest of the drivel that you are calling a submission. Is this supposed to be investigative journalism, a review piece, or just typical Mac user bashing?

I have used IE8 in both Windows 7 and XP environments and its not bad. It hasn't made me want to switch from Firefox but its better than previous versions and is at least usable now.

As far as your graphs how bout at least including a legend. I intentionally resized the article (in IE8 and FF) and your words don't really line up with the graphs at all and take away from what you were (uninformed) trying to accomplish in the article. (Which I still am on the fence about, you are a Mac user, stick to Safari)

you, sir, are a bonehead.

you, sir, are a bonehead.

"none of the obvious flaws Vista had coming out of the box"

That is correct, most problems were driver related and buggy drivers wreaking havoc on the rest of the system. Browsers don't need a driver so thats pretty obvious. And as far as speed goes, I just switched over today and I do notice it is faster than IE7 so I would say it probably is the best browser from MS. I am done with this whole my browser is faster than yours because quite frankly if I add up the milliseconds or even nanoseconds it saves me it amounts to nothing and is barely noticable to the human eye. It seems as though you never test anything and just take snippits from around the web and believe them when you feel like. I do question your technical knowledge as well and if you really understand the things you write about. I think tech writers should know tech.

How can your write an article when you've done absolutely no research on this, especially with regards to actually using the product.

Would you rate the iPhone 3.0 software the same way, by not using it prior to crafting a decision?

How can your write an article when you've done absolutely no research on this, especially with regards to actually using the product.

Would you rate the iPhone 3.0 software the same way, by not using it prior to crafting a decision?

Nothing wrong with spreading some of the "initial thoughts" by those who have tried it. This is an instance where "more (as in more info) is better than less". Apple may have a "Smoke and Mirrors" kind of essence…but at least their products start decent and get better…not worse.

I don't have to be in an suto accident to know that I don't want to be.

The train wreck that is MicroSquish is just a long slow process. The probems with Vista & Exploder8 (if real) are a testament to the management acumen of the pompous Paul Allen.

Nothing wrong with spreading some of the "initial thoughts" by those who have tried it. This is an instance where "more (as in more info) is better than less". Apple may have a "Smoke and Mirrors" kind of essence…but at least their products start decent and get better…not worse.

I don't have to be in an suto accident to know that I don't want to be.

The train wreck that is MicroSquish is just a long slow process. The probems with Vista & Exploder8 (if real) are a testament to the management acumen of the pompous Paul Allen.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Pwn2Own-CanSecWest-2009,7322.html

Hope your happy with your Mac that can be hacked in less than 10 seconds…

Apple fanboys so smug yet so DUMB!

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Pwn2Own-CanSecWest-2009,7322.html

Hope your happy with your Mac that can be hacked in less than 10 seconds…

Apple fanboys so smug yet so DUMB!

Are you a journalist or do you just repost what Walt Mossberg told you to spread? I mean, you blatantly admitted you did no research and just sound like a fanboy instead of a jounalist.

Also, and I know this is asking a lot, but if you're going to post graphs on your article you should probably label what the different pie-slices are. You also might want to post graphs that don't look like they were made on Lotus 1-2-3 in 1987. You're allowed to you a bit-depth higher than 4bits/pixel.

ex ped: I am Mossberg's lap dog. Arf. For more information on the pie slices, click on the charts. They'll take you to the original information from Net Applications.

Are you a journalist or do you just repost what Walt Mossberg told you to spread? I mean, you blatantly admitted you did no research and just sound like a fanboy instead of a jounalist.

Also, and I know this is asking a lot, but if you're going to post graphs on your article you should probably label what the different pie-slices are. You also might want to post graphs that don't look like they were made on Lotus 1-2-3 in 1987. You're allowed to you a bit-depth higher than 4bits/pixel.

ex ped: I am Mossberg's lap dog. Arf. For more information on the pie slices, click on the charts. They'll take you to the original information from Net Applications.

Painful reading, you obviously don't know what you're talking about here. Stick to Apple, clearly the broader world outside is over your head. I'm actually embarrassed for CNN.

Painful reading, you obviously don't know what you're talking about here. Stick to Apple, clearly the broader world outside is over your head. I'm actually embarrassed for CNN.

I'm agreeing with the comment on questioning why you wrote an article on something you personally know NOTHING about?

Hey guys, I haven't actually worked for CNN, but I heard you can make stuff up for articles!

I'm agreeing with the comment on questioning why you wrote an article on something you personally know NOTHING about?

Hey guys, I haven't actually worked for CNN, but I heard you can make stuff up for articles!

PED, normally I like your writing, but you blew it on this one. Take this paragraph for example:

"How has Microsoft responded to the challenge? From what I’m hearing, Redmond’s strategy with IE sounds a lot like the one that brought the world Windows Vista: Stay focused on your installed base. Pile on the features. Sacrifice performance for new tricks. And act as if the other operating systems didn’t exist."

First, have you actually read any of the publicity from Redmond on IE8? Have you read any of the reviews of IE8 other than Mossberg? Did you look at the speed tests conducted by Microsoft? I would say that you can't trust the Microsoft tests, but they admitted that IE8 was not the fastest at loading Microsoft.com!

IE8 is more like the Windows 7 of browsers. It looks a lot like the previous version, but the core is different. It adheres better to standards. It has a new JS engine to free resources. It is a leaner, meaner product than its predecessor.

Is it as user-friendly as Safari? Maybe not. Is it as flexible as Firefox? Not if you customize Firefox, but out of the box it is. Is it a good, capable browser that is better than the previous version? Most definitely.

I have used every version of IE released in the past 10 years. I wasn't crazy about IE7 except for where it copied Firefox. IE8 is a solid improvement, and I am much happier running it than I was IE7.

Finally, why, on an Apple blog, are you discussing IE8 anyway. If you want to complain that there is no IE8 for Mac, do so. But try to keep your topic on Apple. If the world needed more MS reviews from an Apple bias, we would have asked you for it.

PED, normally I like your writing, but you blew it on this one. Take this paragraph for example:

"How has Microsoft responded to the challenge? From what I’m hearing, Redmond’s strategy with IE sounds a lot like the one that brought the world Windows Vista: Stay focused on your installed base. Pile on the features. Sacrifice performance for new tricks. And act as if the other operating systems didn’t exist."

First, have you actually read any of the publicity from Redmond on IE8? Have you read any of the reviews of IE8 other than Mossberg? Did you look at the speed tests conducted by Microsoft? I would say that you can't trust the Microsoft tests, but they admitted that IE8 was not the fastest at loading Microsoft.com!

IE8 is more like the Windows 7 of browsers. It looks a lot like the previous version, but the core is different. It adheres better to standards. It has a new JS engine to free resources. It is a leaner, meaner product than its predecessor.

Is it as user-friendly as Safari? Maybe not. Is it as flexible as Firefox? Not if you customize Firefox, but out of the box it is. Is it a good, capable browser that is better than the previous version? Most definitely.

I have used every version of IE released in the past 10 years. I wasn't crazy about IE7 except for where it copied Firefox. IE8 is a solid improvement, and I am much happier running it than I was IE7.

Finally, why, on an Apple blog, are you discussing IE8 anyway. If you want to complain that there is no IE8 for Mac, do so. But try to keep your topic on Apple. If the world needed more MS reviews from an Apple bias, we would have asked you for it.

In any other business a market share of even 89% would be considered a monopoly.

With Web 2.0 the speed and efficiency of the Javascript engine becomes paramount. I often hear the fan come on in my notebook, when sitting idle on a Web 2.0 page. Checking the cpu utilization, I see the browser using copious amount of cpu to do nothing. I assume that this is the Javascript engine running like crazy.

In any other business a market share of even 89% would be considered a monopoly.

With Web 2.0 the speed and efficiency of the Javascript engine becomes paramount. I often hear the fan come on in my notebook, when sitting idle on a Web 2.0 page. Checking the cpu utilization, I see the browser using copious amount of cpu to do nothing. I assume that this is the Javascript engine running like crazy.

Yeah, so, please don't review something you haven't even taken the time to personally review. Really bad journalism.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

Yeah, so, please don't review something you haven't even taken the time to personally review. Really bad journalism.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

"Speaking of browsers…congratulations to Safari on a Mac being hacked in seconds after Pwn2Own started for the second year in a row."

Yeah, and congratulations to IE for getting hacked ten seconds after that! NONE of the browsers survived the first day, and ALL of the winners used hacks they came prepared to use that had been coded before they ever got to the conference!

Not a lotta good any of that does anyone but the guys that won.

"Speaking of browsers…congratulations to Safari on a Mac being hacked in seconds after Pwn2Own started for the second year in a row."

Yeah, and congratulations to IE for getting hacked ten seconds after that! NONE of the browsers survived the first day, and ALL of the winners used hacks they came prepared to use that had been coded before they ever got to the conference!

Not a lotta good any of that does anyone but the guys that won.

This article is so useless. I second the comments posted by Buddy w.r.t article. Why on earth would you be commenting on something you have no experience with nor in your own words will ever try coz it does not run on a Mac.

Bozos like these cause real news and journalism to take a back seat. If this article was presented to a news editor it would have been thrown in the trash along with author.

Now, I just wasted 5 mins commenting on something instead of just moving on. Oh well!

This article is so useless. I second the comments posted by Buddy w.r.t article. Why on earth would you be commenting on something you have no experience with nor in your own words will ever try coz it does not run on a Mac.

Bozos like these cause real news and journalism to take a back seat. If this article was presented to a news editor it would have been thrown in the trash along with author.

Now, I just wasted 5 mins commenting on something instead of just moving on. Oh well!

As a Web developer, who has dealt with Internet Exploder Sick.0 and IE7 for years, and is the bane of very HTML/CSS coder on the planet, I don't care about slow as much as adherence to Web standards. Microsoft has arrogantly thumbed their nose at Web standards until now. But here's the problem, IE6 still has an 18% market share, meaning it could be a decade before the Web standard travesties of IE6 and IE7 are gone from our lives. If Microsoft only knew how much money they have cost the customers of Web developers, as we try to cajole our pretty code to work in IE. Entire sites, blogs, and chapters of books are dedicated to hacking IE. It's ludicrous. I wish IE would just disappear altogether. I would love to work in just Firefox or Safari forever.

As a Web developer, who has dealt with Internet Exploder Sick.0 and IE7 for years, and is the bane of very HTML/CSS coder on the planet, I don't care about slow as much as adherence to Web standards. Microsoft has arrogantly thumbed their nose at Web standards until now. But here's the problem, IE6 still has an 18% market share, meaning it could be a decade before the Web standard travesties of IE6 and IE7 are gone from our lives. If Microsoft only knew how much money they have cost the customers of Web developers, as we try to cajole our pretty code to work in IE. Entire sites, blogs, and chapters of books are dedicated to hacking IE. It's ludicrous. I wish IE would just disappear altogether. I would love to work in just Firefox or Safari forever.

Firefox is my browser of choice but I've been using IE8 beta and it's plenty fast. I won't use IE8 over Firefox due to extensions but IE8 is no slouch and it's not different performance wise to me then IE7 is nor it is much different then FF 3.0.7.

Vista isn't a bad OS. People are just scared of change and they want to keep their 5+ year old hardware for eternity for some reason. Plus people can't gripe about Windows 7 so they'll find something else MS makes and bash that.

The whole "faster then " is a waste of breathe. They're all fast nowadays. Browsers like Chrome are only miliseconds faster then the next guy and you can only see it in synthetic benchmarks which mean absolutely nothing.

If anything IE8 is a good thing because it follows standard better. 3rd party browsers have forced MS to listen to the standards and code for such. Meaning we're better off in the future. Plus competition is a good thing. Chrome would be my browser of choice if I could get extensions like the ones I use in Firefox.

Personally I think MS is going to toss IE to the curb and start over after IE8. Everything they've said about future IE development leads me to believe that. They won't leave the browser business but they will revamp what they're doing considerably.

Speaking of browsers…congratulations to Safari on a Mac being hacked in seconds after Pwn2Own started for the second year in a row.

Firefox is my browser of choice but I've been using IE8 beta and it's plenty fast. I won't use IE8 over Firefox due to extensions but IE8 is no slouch and it's not different performance wise to me then IE7 is nor it is much different then FF 3.0.7.

Vista isn't a bad OS. People are just scared of change and they want to keep their 5+ year old hardware for eternity for some reason. Plus people can't gripe about Windows 7 so they'll find something else MS makes and bash that.

The whole "faster then " is a waste of breathe. They're all fast nowadays. Browsers like Chrome are only miliseconds faster then the next guy and you can only see it in synthetic benchmarks which mean absolutely nothing.

If anything IE8 is a good thing because it follows standard better. 3rd party browsers have forced MS to listen to the standards and code for such. Meaning we're better off in the future. Plus competition is a good thing. Chrome would be my browser of choice if I could get extensions like the ones I use in Firefox.

Personally I think MS is going to toss IE to the curb and start over after IE8. Everything they've said about future IE development leads me to believe that. They won't leave the browser business but they will revamp what they're doing considerably.

Speaking of browsers…congratulations to Safari on a Mac being hacked in seconds after Pwn2Own started for the second year in a row.

Why did you write a column about a product you haven't seen and only have partial second hand knowledge? Next time, take an hour to try the product before you review it.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

Why did you write a column about a product you haven't seen and only have partial second hand knowledge? Next time, take an hour to try the product before you review it.

ex ped: Did that read like a review?

What a surprise. I have worked in the IT Support business for 10 years. MS used to be my bread an butter, but Vista was so horrible that I went and got Apple Certified. A new OS/application should do more with less resources, not more with more. Alas, MS has failed that adage twice now.

What a surprise. I have worked in the IT Support business for 10 years. MS used to be my bread an butter, but Vista was so horrible that I went and got Apple Certified. A new OS/application should do more with less resources, not more with more. Alas, MS has failed that adage twice now.