Windows 7: Trouble on the upgrade path
Fasten your seat belts. There could be some bumpy nights ahead in the IT department.
When the information technology guys discover how painful it can be to upgrade their current PC hardware to Microsoft's (MSFT) Windows 7 — the successor to the much-maligned Windows Vista — they may be tempted to switch to Linux or Apple's (AAPL) Mac OS X.
That's the conclusion of the product specialists at CRN's Channel Web — a publication geared more to IT professionals than to the typical Mac user — after running the latest Windows 7 beta through their Test Center.
"On both fresh hardware and on first-look upgrades from Windows Vista machines, Windows 7 met the world looking like a champ," writes Channel Web's Ed Mozen in a post published Tuesday. "Upon closer look, though, it appears as though Windows 7 could actually be more of a challenge for businesses than Vista ever was. The upgrade path from Windows XP – which is still the predominant desktop OS in businesses — can be described graciously as 'ugly.'" (link)
Part of the problem is that you can't install Windows 7 beta directly from Windows XP. Instead, you have to upgrade to Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) or later before attempting an install — a process the Channel Web team found to be non-trivial.
Among the scariest quotes in their report:
- "While Microsoft has assured the world that if the hardware works with Windows Vista it will work with Windows 7, the reality is that is misleading at best."
- "We've almost lost count of the number of blue screens we've seen in the CRN Test Center during the Windows 7 evaluation process."
- "We tried to do the upgrade on an Acer TravelMate, but were stopped in our tracks by Bluetooth driver incompatibilities."
- "On a series of 3-and-a-half year old ThinkPad T43s, an IBM security processor refused to let the notebooks boot up with Windows 7. We needed to crack open a couple of four-year old desktops … to add memory just to try to get a system image."
- "Across the XP-Vista-Windows 7 landscape, Microsoft has fostered an ecosystem that now holds out the prospect of a mind-numbing number of incompatible drivers, unsupported devices, unsupported applications, unsupported data, patches, updates, upgrades, "known issues" and unknown issues."
Channel Web concludes:
"One at a time, these problems can be blown off as inconsequential or simply what happens during beta testing and an upgrade process. But, taken together, these problems are appearing all at once after Microsoft's botched XP-to-Vista upgrade and during the worst economic decline in generations….
"A solution provider can now expect to spend many hours, billable or otherwise, dealing with all the extra pain points brought about by having to navigate through a mine field of three concurrently used Microsoft operating environments.
"Or they could opt to give Linux or Apple's Mac OS X a try. That's not as crazy an idea as it may have been in years past." (link)
During his annual "strategic update" conference call Tuesday, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer told Wall Street analysts that while Apple "has probably increased its market share over the last year or so by a point or more," he was more focused on the competitive threats posed by Linux and Google (GOOG). (link)
In response to a request for comment, a Microsoft spokesperson wrote:
"Customers can purchase upgrade media and an upgrade license to move from Windows XP to Windows 7; however, they will need to do a clean installation of Windows 7."
Windows 7 is scheduled to ship in early 2010.
Why are PC computers still being built other than to get money from people that don't know or have not yet learned their lesson/s from the past ?
They never work right. Never. Just go with Mac and no more stress.
I upgraded from Os x 10.4.11 to 10.5.7 doing an upgrade and NOT a clean install. It worked flawlessly. I have never done a clean install instead of an upgrade when doing an upgrade and never have had any problems. Something has got to be wrong with Windows if the only way to get it to work is a completely clean install on a formatted hard drive. Why are they even offering the upgrade option if it does not work? Personally I am happy to see Windows Vista sucking so much that even people who dislike MAC are now beginning to dislike Windows. Now the average person is beginning to realize what I did 10 years ago. Anyone who thinks Windows 7 will be the new best operating system ever better think again. It is based off of Windows Vista. If you dislike windows Vista, get ready to dislike Windows 7. Windows OSes are so bad that I think they've realized how good they have it, with their customer base, and have been taking it for granted. "Look at all the stupid stuff we're getting away with! Wow!"
Windows is designed for people who don't know any better. PCs are designed for people who don't know any better. Almost 30 years and you think Microsoft would have had a sit down with PC designers to figure out the compatibility issues by now. Maybe they won't. Maybe they're happy with computers that run sort-of-ok just long enough to get you out of the warranty phase then everything goes kaput in your face!
Oh, and I think the designers of Windows and of the PCs themselves must have 20/300 vision and not realize it. They m,st be the same designers who work for Ford, Chrysler, Doge, and Chevy!
PC stands for either Pretty Cheap or Pretty Crappy and Windows is the most appropriate name ever because it's just as easy to hack a windows machine as looking through a window.
I upgraded from Os x 10.4.11 to 10.5.7 doing an upgrade and NOT a clean install. It worked flawlessly. I have never done a clean install instead of an upgrade when doing an upgrade and never have had any problems. Something has got to be wrong with Windows if the only way to get it to work is a completely clean install on a formatted hard drive. Why are they even offering the upgrade option if it does not work? Personally I am happy to see Windows Vista sucking so much that even people who dislike MAC are now beginning to dislike Windows. Now the average person is beginning to realize what I did 10 years ago. Anyone who thinks Windows 7 will be the new best operating system ever better think again. It is based off of Windows Vista. If you dislike windows Vista, get ready to dislike Windows 7. Windows OSes are so bad that I think they've realized how good they have it, with their customer base, and have been taking it for granted. "Look at all the stupid stuff we're getting away with! Wow!"
Windows is designed for people who don't know any better. PCs are designed for people who don't know any better. Almost 30 years and you think Microsoft would have had a sit down with PC designers to figure out the compatibility issues by now. Maybe they won't. Maybe they're happy with computers that run sort-of-ok just long enough to get you out of the warranty phase then everything goes kaput in your face!
Oh, and I think the designers of Windows and of the PCs themselves must have 20/300 vision and not realize it. They m,st be the same designers who work for Ford, Chrysler, Doge, and Chevy!
PC stands for either Pretty Cheap or Pretty Crappy and Windows is the most appropriate name ever because it's just as easy to hack a windows machine as looking through a window.
Its great that so many have been having not only great experiences with the RC but also with the beta. There were many changes between the RC and the beta. For those who have yet to test drive 7RC and switch from beta to 7RC I would recommend doing so within the near future as the beta will expire quite soon. For more information and direct download, head on over to Microsoft Springboard.
Jessica
Microsoft TechNet / Springboard
Its great that so many have been having not only great experiences with the RC but also with the beta. There were many changes between the RC and the beta. For those who have yet to test drive 7RC and switch from beta to 7RC I would recommend doing so within the near future as the beta will expire quite soon. For more information and direct download, head on over to Microsoft Springboard.
Jessica
Microsoft TechNet / Springboard
Heavy gamer with a beautiful personal machine and while i avoided Vista like the plague i am now a devout user of 7. I upgraded FROM XP to those who want to circumvent Vista and have had no problems (other than my rig causes power failures once in a while). I have used the latest version of Mac and aside from the initial load and shutdown it is a nightmare. the hardware for one i a pain to configure (mouse) and the way that the apps work you would think you were in a cheap movie (way too many animations). Then of course the system is a maze. Good luck finding your app to begin with. And then there is the mandatory upgrade of the OS to receive updates.
I have used Windows for most of my life and can honestly say that the ability to completely control my system and customize my hardware for half the cost of the same piece of mac tech has allowed me to achieve phenomenal performance and complete satisfaction. My system cost me $500 and it is exponentially more powerful than any mac on the market, so i ask you; is that mass of aluminum really worth $3K?
Heavy gamer with a beautiful personal machine and while i avoided Vista like the plague i am now a devout user of 7. I upgraded FROM XP to those who want to circumvent Vista and have had no problems (other than my rig causes power failures once in a while). I have used the latest version of Mac and aside from the initial load and shutdown it is a nightmare. the hardware for one i a pain to configure (mouse) and the way that the apps work you would think you were in a cheap movie (way too many animations). Then of course the system is a maze. Good luck finding your app to begin with. And then there is the mandatory upgrade of the OS to receive updates.
I have used Windows for most of my life and can honestly say that the ability to completely control my system and customize my hardware for half the cost of the same piece of mac tech has allowed me to achieve phenomenal performance and complete satisfaction. My system cost me $500 and it is exponentially more powerful than any mac on the market, so i ask you; is that mass of aluminum really worth $3K?
Duh… No surprises here. 90% of these guys would be out of a job if their companies used Macs. Follow the money, you go broke supporting Macs and make a fortune supporting PC's. No brains required to see why IT's are adamant about PC's… Regardless of the reasons they espouse.
What is more interesting is that so many blame this article for the statements from a market study done by an outside marketing firm. No doubt about it, PC geeks are every bit as zealous as Mac geeks.
I have owned both and had MUCH less trouble with the Macs, hardware as well as software. I am a user, not a "fixer". I will go where the trouble factor is the least problem and up-time rules. I run a network of 19 Macs and I have NEVER spent a dime on software support. My marketing associate has a network of 18 PC's and spends $1.200 a month just keeping her network alive. Blue screens are frequent for her. She won't consider change because her "expert" only supports PC's.
Again, do the math…
Duh… No surprises here. 90% of these guys would be out of a job if their companies used Macs. Follow the money, you go broke supporting Macs and make a fortune supporting PC's. No brains required to see why IT's are adamant about PC's… Regardless of the reasons they espouse.
What is more interesting is that so many blame this article for the statements from a market study done by an outside marketing firm. No doubt about it, PC geeks are every bit as zealous as Mac geeks.
I have owned both and had MUCH less trouble with the Macs, hardware as well as software. I am a user, not a "fixer". I will go where the trouble factor is the least problem and up-time rules. I run a network of 19 Macs and I have NEVER spent a dime on software support. My marketing associate has a network of 18 PC's and spends $1.200 a month just keeping her network alive. Blue screens are frequent for her. She won't consider change because her "expert" only supports PC's.
Again, do the math…
windows 7 same Kernel as Vista SP1. Me thinks it's wishful thinking the out come is going to be different.
windows 7 same Kernel as Vista SP1. Me thinks it's wishful thinking the out come is going to be different.
Good grief!
Who is this clown? He sure as heck isn't an 'IT', at least not on pc's.. :O)
I'm not an 'IT', I'm a gamer. I build my own rigs, edit my own registry files when necessary and use XP Pro (streamlined) faithfully.
As much as I HATE Vista, I LOVE Win7.
Even the beta driver for my X-FI sound card works without a hitch on Win7 when the regular driver for XP BSOD's once in a while. It's stable, and fast.
It rocks! I'm buying it
Good grief!
Who is this clown? He sure as heck isn't an 'IT', at least not on pc's.. :O)
I'm not an 'IT', I'm a gamer. I build my own rigs, edit my own registry files when necessary and use XP Pro (streamlined) faithfully.
As much as I HATE Vista, I LOVE Win7.
Even the beta driver for my X-FI sound card works without a hitch on Win7 when the regular driver for XP BSOD's once in a while. It's stable, and fast.
It rocks! I'm buying it
Windows 7 beta worked 100% for me without having to add any drivers or tweaking. i have it setup as a dual boot with windows xp and my only issue is that i installed the 64bit version and of course APPLE in the infinite wisdom they have did not release a 64 bit version of itunes for iphones so that is the only reason i have booted my xp install. otherwise windows 7 works perfectly and i am using it right now. It even surprised me that the media center it came bundled with worked with my hd tv tuner perfectly and without needing to install any additional software or drivers.
my rating A+++ and will definetely be buying it when it is released.
I run an AMD X2 5600 system with 2 GB ram and 300 GB IDE hardrive.
I will run windows 98 before i will buy an overpriced underpowered apple system.
Windows 7 beta worked 100% for me without having to add any drivers or tweaking. i have it setup as a dual boot with windows xp and my only issue is that i installed the 64bit version and of course APPLE in the infinite wisdom they have did not release a 64 bit version of itunes for iphones so that is the only reason i have booted my xp install. otherwise windows 7 works perfectly and i am using it right now. It even surprised me that the media center it came bundled with worked with my hd tv tuner perfectly and without needing to install any additional software or drivers.
my rating A+++ and will definetely be buying it when it is released.
I run an AMD X2 5600 system with 2 GB ram and 300 GB IDE hardrive.
I will run windows 98 before i will buy an overpriced underpowered apple system.
The IT specialists who think this article is bogus and who think everything is just fine with Windows are the sad and desperate leftovers from the age of the computer priesthood, a time when a small group of "knowledgeable" technicians held sway over who could use a computer, how they could use a computer, and when they could use a computer. The personal computer was supposed to be the demise of this priesthood, but along came Windows, and now the priesthood is even bigger. Without them, we can't run a computer, and we certainly can't install new operating systems, new devices, and such. This is called job security. If we used personal computers that don't require the tech priests, they'd be out of a job.
The IT specialists who think this article is bogus and who think everything is just fine with Windows are the sad and desperate leftovers from the age of the computer priesthood, a time when a small group of "knowledgeable" technicians held sway over who could use a computer, how they could use a computer, and when they could use a computer. The personal computer was supposed to be the demise of this priesthood, but along came Windows, and now the priesthood is even bigger. Without them, we can't run a computer, and we certainly can't install new operating systems, new devices, and such. This is called job security. If we used personal computers that don't require the tech priests, they'd be out of a job.
I am not an IT professional which I think gives me a completely different perspective. I have owned various Windows machines over the years and in the last year switched to a mac at home.
I'm a surgeon and at work the hospital and my hospital owned office exclusively use Windows. If you ask my IT department, everything is rosy all of the time. However what I see is that on any given ward 50% of the computers are non-functional in some way at any given time. This is either due to crashes, computers inadvertently locked by the previous user, or network issues, etc. More commonly, the computers work just fine, but cannot complete a required task because this has been locked out by the IT department due to security holes. This seems odd since the network goes down about once every six months due to a virus or other security issue.
As a surgeon, I just don't have time to report the multiple problems and delays encountered on a daily basis. All of us just circumvent these issues because that is the only time-efficient solution "in the trenches". Currently, many of our nurses want to quit because of these computer problems, but most find that the other hospitals in the city are just as bad. I have worked in several other hospitals and know that they are correct.
The cost to businesses of having an effective downtime of nearly 50% must be staggering. Lowering worker productivity must incur even higher costs.
This is all in contrast to my mac which runs office fine, never crashes, never inexplicably slows, and is completely compatible with all of the medical software used by the hospital.
I am not an IT professional which I think gives me a completely different perspective. I have owned various Windows machines over the years and in the last year switched to a mac at home.
I'm a surgeon and at work the hospital and my hospital owned office exclusively use Windows. If you ask my IT department, everything is rosy all of the time. However what I see is that on any given ward 50% of the computers are non-functional in some way at any given time. This is either due to crashes, computers inadvertently locked by the previous user, or network issues, etc. More commonly, the computers work just fine, but cannot complete a required task because this has been locked out by the IT department due to security holes. This seems odd since the network goes down about once every six months due to a virus or other security issue.
As a surgeon, I just don't have time to report the multiple problems and delays encountered on a daily basis. All of us just circumvent these issues because that is the only time-efficient solution "in the trenches". Currently, many of our nurses want to quit because of these computer problems, but most find that the other hospitals in the city are just as bad. I have worked in several other hospitals and know that they are correct.
The cost to businesses of having an effective downtime of nearly 50% must be staggering. Lowering worker productivity must incur even higher costs.
This is all in contrast to my mac which runs office fine, never crashes, never inexplicably slows, and is completely compatible with all of the medical software used by the hospital.
Wow that's horrible. Have to upgrade to Vista first? Forget Windows 7, we'll stick with XP for a few more years and have high hopes for Windows 8.
Wow that's horrible. Have to upgrade to Vista first? Forget Windows 7, we'll stick with XP for a few more years and have high hopes for Windows 8.
Engineering Firm IT Manager here from Chicago who has ventured into the beta testing arena with Windows 7. I'm uncertain as to what you gentlemen are really pointing to but I haven't had many problems with Windows 7 at all. Do yourselves a favor and don't run brand new beta software on antiquated hardware and you won't run into all of these problems.
1. Installation time is 100% faster than Windows XP installations & 40% faster than Windows Vista installations.
2. Applications launch, close and perform much faster and smoother than Windows Vista.
3. The "Bloat" of Vista has been removed.
4. The Windows Aero interface looks beautiful and doesn't suck up nearly the resources it used to.
Windows 7 in it's beta format is wonderful.
Conclusion…quit trying to pump your Apple stock or go back to college with the rest of the fanboi's. Apple never got the enterprise and they never will.
Engineering Firm IT Manager here from Chicago who has ventured into the beta testing arena with Windows 7. I'm uncertain as to what you gentlemen are really pointing to but I haven't had many problems with Windows 7 at all. Do yourselves a favor and don't run brand new beta software on antiquated hardware and you won't run into all of these problems.
1. Installation time is 100% faster than Windows XP installations & 40% faster than Windows Vista installations.
2. Applications launch, close and perform much faster and smoother than Windows Vista.
3. The "Bloat" of Vista has been removed.
4. The Windows Aero interface looks beautiful and doesn't suck up nearly the resources it used to.
Windows 7 in it's beta format is wonderful.
Conclusion…quit trying to pump your Apple stock or go back to college with the rest of the fanboi's. Apple never got the enterprise and they never will.
I am an IT Professional as well and I have installed Windows 7 on three systems so far.
On a Dell Vostro 1400 I had no issues whatsoever. It runs great. No crashes yet, no bsod's, nothing. The only snag was installing Cisco's VPN Client but I found some notes on the web of a fix that also worked well.
Running Win 7 in a VM on Fusion (on a Mac, no less). Flawless.
I even installed Win 7 on an old Dell Latitude D600 with only 512 MB of RAM. The install took about 45 minutes but everything worked when I was done. The only problems I had was the system freezing when I would try to view videos. There seemed to be an issue using DirectX. Other than that, the system worked well. Browsing the web, checking Facebook, Gmail, etc. No problems. Only videos. And I'm sure that was due to lack of RAM.
I agree with so many other comments. You think "upgrading" from Win XP to Mac OS X is going to be easier than upgrading from Win XP to Win 7???? Please! Give us a break.
I will happily upgrade our school to Win 7 as soon as our hardware can support it. For me, that a dual core processor and at least 2 GB of RAM. Bring on 7!
I am an IT Professional as well and I have installed Windows 7 on three systems so far.
On a Dell Vostro 1400 I had no issues whatsoever. It runs great. No crashes yet, no bsod's, nothing. The only snag was installing Cisco's VPN Client but I found some notes on the web of a fix that also worked well.
Running Win 7 in a VM on Fusion (on a Mac, no less). Flawless.
I even installed Win 7 on an old Dell Latitude D600 with only 512 MB of RAM. The install took about 45 minutes but everything worked when I was done. The only problems I had was the system freezing when I would try to view videos. There seemed to be an issue using DirectX. Other than that, the system worked well. Browsing the web, checking Facebook, Gmail, etc. No problems. Only videos. And I'm sure that was due to lack of RAM.
I agree with so many other comments. You think "upgrading" from Win XP to Mac OS X is going to be easier than upgrading from Win XP to Win 7???? Please! Give us a break.
I will happily upgrade our school to Win 7 as soon as our hardware can support it. For me, that a dual core processor and at least 2 GB of RAM. Bring on 7!
I am a System Administrator and am in charge of over 500 windows based machines. I can tell you that this article is quite rediculous. Who does a review based on a beta OS? Regardless, i've tested Windows 7 on a couple machines and it runs fabulously.
In terms of upgrading workstations, do you really think we would try to upgrade 500+ machines using that method? How absurd; all meduim to large businesses use some sort of imaging system to push an OS to their computers. Also, user data is stored on data servers on the network and not the local machine.
As for vista, I've been using Vista Business x64 edition in the work environment and at home for some time now and it runs like a dream. No crashes or blue screens.
Finally, we have a couple macs in the environment and very few departments can use them since they don't support most of our software. So the belief that macs may replace the pc's in our environment is complete nonsense.
Whoever wrote this article clearly was biased or simply wasn't qualified to write it in the first place.
I am a System Administrator and am in charge of over 500 windows based machines. I can tell you that this article is quite rediculous. Who does a review based on a beta OS? Regardless, i've tested Windows 7 on a couple machines and it runs fabulously.
In terms of upgrading workstations, do you really think we would try to upgrade 500+ machines using that method? How absurd; all meduim to large businesses use some sort of imaging system to push an OS to their computers. Also, user data is stored on data servers on the network and not the local machine.
As for vista, I've been using Vista Business x64 edition in the work environment and at home for some time now and it runs like a dream. No crashes or blue screens.
Finally, we have a couple macs in the environment and very few departments can use them since they don't support most of our software. So the belief that macs may replace the pc's in our environment is complete nonsense.
Whoever wrote this article clearly was biased or simply wasn't qualified to write it in the first place.
Take this trash article off the website. I'm an IT professional myself and I have yet to see a problem on my own test environment or on any of my colleagues. We all made the jump from XP to 7 without ever dreaming of adding Vista to the mix and it’s been picture perfect all the way. This includes IT professionals from multiple departments, multiple agencies, and friends from other companies. I’m sick and tired of reading articles from people that simply cannot admit that Microsoft is doing a great job at keeping light years ahead of Apple. If you want to act like it’s difficult to upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7, why don’t you write an article about how nearly IMPOSSIBLE it would be to go from Windows XP to Mac OSX. You won’t ever see an article like that because it would involve using those little things called ‘facts’ that Mac users have long since left behind.
Take this trash article off the website. I'm an IT professional myself and I have yet to see a problem on my own test environment or on any of my colleagues. We all made the jump from XP to 7 without ever dreaming of adding Vista to the mix and it’s been picture perfect all the way. This includes IT professionals from multiple departments, multiple agencies, and friends from other companies. I’m sick and tired of reading articles from people that simply cannot admit that Microsoft is doing a great job at keeping light years ahead of Apple. If you want to act like it’s difficult to upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7, why don’t you write an article about how nearly IMPOSSIBLE it would be to go from Windows XP to Mac OSX. You won’t ever see an article like that because it would involve using those little things called ‘facts’ that Mac users have long since left behind.
I dont understand this, ive had 7 since the birth and have never once had a problem with it. infact its running right now, heck i exposed my school to it and many computers are running the beta right now. i have never once blue screen'd but i guess thats my luck. but i believe that windows 7 was a VAST improvement from the joke we call vista. i think microsoft is doing a great job IMO
I dont understand this, ive had 7 since the birth and have never once had a problem with it. infact its running right now, heck i exposed my school to it and many computers are running the beta right now. i have never once blue screen'd but i guess thats my luck. but i believe that windows 7 was a VAST improvement from the joke we call vista. i think microsoft is doing a great job IMO
This truly is a nonsense article. These people are either retarded or biased towards OSX.
"“We’ve almost lost count of the number of blue screens we’ve seen in the CRN Test Center during the Windows 7 evaluation process.”"
- I'd like to see some screenshots to prove that…I don't believe it.
"“We tried to do the upgrade on an Acer TravelMate, but were stopped in our tracks by Bluetooth driver incompatibilities.”"
- If bluetooth drivers stopped them from an upgrade (and a Beta one at that) than they are IDIOTS.
“On a series of 3-and-a-half year old ThinkPad T43s, an IBM security processor refused to let the notebooks boot up with Windows 7. We needed to crack open a couple of four-year old desktops … to add memory just to try to get a system image.”
- Is this comment serious? 4 year old thinkpad and they are so shocked? Wow….
“A solution provider can now expect to spend many hours, billable or otherwise, dealing with all the extra pain points brought about by having to navigate through a mine field of three concurrently used Microsoft operating environments.
“Or they could opt to give Linux or Apple’s Mac OS X a try. That’s not as crazy an idea as it may have been in years past.”
— Yes. like the cost of buying all new Macs, depolying them, setting them up to work with your existing network, and training users to use them is going to be so much cheaper.
This article is absolute utter garbage.
ex ped: If you have questions about the original article, I suggest you take them up with CRN Channel Web. Here's the link: click.
This truly is a nonsense article. These people are either retarded or biased towards OSX.
"“We’ve almost lost count of the number of blue screens we’ve seen in the CRN Test Center during the Windows 7 evaluation process.”"
- I'd like to see some screenshots to prove that…I don't believe it.
"“We tried to do the upgrade on an Acer TravelMate, but were stopped in our tracks by Bluetooth driver incompatibilities.”"
- If bluetooth drivers stopped them from an upgrade (and a Beta one at that) than they are IDIOTS.
“On a series of 3-and-a-half year old ThinkPad T43s, an IBM security processor refused to let the notebooks boot up with Windows 7. We needed to crack open a couple of four-year old desktops … to add memory just to try to get a system image.”
- Is this comment serious? 4 year old thinkpad and they are so shocked? Wow….
“A solution provider can now expect to spend many hours, billable or otherwise, dealing with all the extra pain points brought about by having to navigate through a mine field of three concurrently used Microsoft operating environments.
“Or they could opt to give Linux or Apple’s Mac OS X a try. That’s not as crazy an idea as it may have been in years past.”
— Yes. like the cost of buying all new Macs, depolying them, setting them up to work with your existing network, and training users to use them is going to be so much cheaper.
This article is absolute utter garbage.
ex ped: If you have questions about the original article, I suggest you take them up with CRN Channel Web. Here's the link: click.
The issue isnt installing to a computer running XP, the real issue is "ugrading" a computer from XP to 7, so that you dont lose any files or settings. I too have tried Windows 7 beta. A fresh install is not a problem, but upgrading is definatly a nightmare.
Has anyone noticed how much Windows 7 looks like the Linux Desktop KDE?
I agree with some of the other comments. Use what works for you. Windows XP will still be around for awhile. If you are sick of pulling your hair out, buy a mac. Or even better go download a copy of Ubuntu Linux (its free, and way better than Microsoft).
The issue isnt installing to a computer running XP, the real issue is "ugrading" a computer from XP to 7, so that you dont lose any files or settings. I too have tried Windows 7 beta. A fresh install is not a problem, but upgrading is definatly a nightmare.
Has anyone noticed how much Windows 7 looks like the Linux Desktop KDE?
I agree with some of the other comments. Use what works for you. Windows XP will still be around for awhile. If you are sick of pulling your hair out, buy a mac. Or even better go download a copy of Ubuntu Linux (its free, and way better than Microsoft).
Considering that Windows 7 is in the Beta stage, I find most of the comments in the article irrevelant. I wonder if the "testers" even bothered to submit their findings to Microsoft. I mean, after all, isn't that purpose of the Beta? And as far as the comment “Or they could opt to give Linux or Apple’s Mac OS X a try. That’s not as crazy an idea as it may have been in years past.” I think that pretty much destroys any credibility of their "IT professionals", since there seems to be a missing link to their article discussing the problems and issues with installing Linux or Mac OS X across the same array of systems mentioned in their article. Please, be critical of new software, but also provide real world comparisons and data we can use. Don't give us the same old 'bash Microsoft' drivel when it is obvious that you didn't do your homework!
Considering that Windows 7 is in the Beta stage, I find most of the comments in the article irrevelant. I wonder if the "testers" even bothered to submit their findings to Microsoft. I mean, after all, isn't that purpose of the Beta? And as far as the comment “Or they could opt to give Linux or Apple’s Mac OS X a try. That’s not as crazy an idea as it may have been in years past.” I think that pretty much destroys any credibility of their "IT professionals", since there seems to be a missing link to their article discussing the problems and issues with installing Linux or Mac OS X across the same array of systems mentioned in their article. Please, be critical of new software, but also provide real world comparisons and data we can use. Don't give us the same old 'bash Microsoft' drivel when it is obvious that you didn't do your homework!
you call those IT professionals??
i installed the beta on my computer with xp no problem, no upgrading to vista SP1 no nothing. It took less than 5 minutes and it runs amazingly
you call those IT professionals??
i installed the beta on my computer with xp no problem, no upgrading to vista SP1 no nothing. It took less than 5 minutes and it runs amazingly
This article is nonsense. You have to upgrade to vista service pack 1? No, you install with the cd from the boot menu, like one would normally install ANY OS. Windows 7 does still have some bugs, but as a beta, one would assume that it is incomplete (almost as if they were testing it to see what needs work), but overall, it appears to at least be better than Vista, if not XP quality.
This article is nonsense. You have to upgrade to vista service pack 1? No, you install with the cd from the boot menu, like one would normally install ANY OS. Windows 7 does still have some bugs, but as a beta, one would assume that it is incomplete (almost as if they were testing it to see what needs work), but overall, it appears to at least be better than Vista, if not XP quality.
I think Microsoft is requiring their employees to post comments on this forum.
In any event, bugs in Beta is not unusual for any software. Too bad bugs in the final product are also not unusual for Microsoft.
I think Microsoft is requiring their employees to post comments on this forum.
In any event, bugs in Beta is not unusual for any software. Too bad bugs in the final product are also not unusual for Microsoft.
I don't put a lot of stock in Microsoft to produce great products but having said that I also have to say that I put even less faith in any press article slamming Microsoft that comes from Apple… Give me a break! Althought I have not loaded it yet, I do have several co-workers who have loaded the beta version with little or no problems. It sounds like the same old MS is bad – buy MAC song and dance to me.
I don't put a lot of stock in Microsoft to produce great products but having said that I also have to say that I put even less faith in any press article slamming Microsoft that comes from Apple… Give me a break! Althought I have not loaded it yet, I do have several co-workers who have loaded the beta version with little or no problems. It sounds like the same old MS is bad – buy MAC song and dance to me.
Funniest thing, I installed the beta, doing a fresh install. It seemed to hang during the install for quite a while, with nothing but the blue windows install screen on it. Then it didn't even load nic drivers, so I could search for other drivers of other devices. You would think they would install at least nic drivers on the beta copy.
Funniest thing, I installed the beta, doing a fresh install. It seemed to hang during the install for quite a while, with nothing but the blue windows install screen on it. Then it didn't even load nic drivers, so I could search for other drivers of other devices. You would think they would install at least nic drivers on the beta copy.
wow people really do get emotional on this topic, XP works fine so why change? also mac os X works fine, it jus depends on what you want to use your computer/laptop for
wow people really do get emotional on this topic, XP works fine so why change? also mac os X works fine, it jus depends on what you want to use your computer/laptop for
More so than having the latest and the greatest what most people want is familiarity and ease of use. No security problems, no driver problems, universal compatibility old and new and future. Microsoft has never provided that, period! For the better part XP works, so why slit your wrists changing to something else when you can stick with something you know. Ya XP is like a bad marriage but one you know what to expect from and can manage and deal with. When an OS that can load up instantly from Flash RAM and run on a harddriveless computer with speed and compatibility of that of the Starship Enterprise, then and only then will I upgrade from my XP!!
More so than having the latest and the greatest what most people want is familiarity and ease of use. No security problems, no driver problems, universal compatibility old and new and future. Microsoft has never provided that, period! For the better part XP works, so why slit your wrists changing to something else when you can stick with something you know. Ya XP is like a bad marriage but one you know what to expect from and can manage and deal with. When an OS that can load up instantly from Flash RAM and run on a harddriveless computer with speed and compatibility of that of the Starship Enterprise, then and only then will I upgrade from my XP!!
Surprise! Difficulties with a beta test copy! On old systems nevertheless! Wow! Am I shocked!
Another data point: I ran Vista beta for a long time in a test environment. I could have used it in production mode, but I didn't. I had very few problems with it. Same now for Windows 7 beta. I guess I'm odd… but I don't care because I am getting work done. Which is far better than focusing on religious wars.
Surprise! Difficulties with a beta test copy! On old systems nevertheless! Wow! Am I shocked!
Another data point: I ran Vista beta for a long time in a test environment. I could have used it in production mode, but I didn't. I had very few problems with it. Same now for Windows 7 beta. I guess I'm odd… but I don't care because I am getting work done. Which is far better than focusing on religious wars.
People that gripe about Microsoft all the time just need to stay away from their products and use whatever else is available.Visa has run fine on every one of my 5 computers because I had enough sense to do a clean install instead of an upgrade.Two of my other computers are running the new windows 7 beta and they are both fast and stable.Again I had enough sense to do a clean install.
If you don't like Microsoft buy something else and shut-up.
People that gripe about Microsoft all the time just need to stay away from their products and use whatever else is available.Visa has run fine on every one of my 5 computers because I had enough sense to do a clean install instead of an upgrade.Two of my other computers are running the new windows 7 beta and they are both fast and stable.Again I had enough sense to do a clean install.
If you don't like Microsoft buy something else and shut-up.
Trial version can be installed with xp
or windows 2008 server trial version or other servers trial to creat a twin operation system pc.
I doubt any one will upgrade to trial version windows 7 from a regular version xp or vista.Trade a high cost regular xp or vista with a trial win 7 ?
Trial version can be installed with xp
or windows 2008 server trial version or other servers trial to creat a twin operation system pc.
I doubt any one will upgrade to trial version windows 7 from a regular version xp or vista.Trade a high cost regular xp or vista with a trial win 7 ?
just hope the bugs are removed and stream lined. don't need to download a ptach that is lager that the install disk suppied as with the current updates and patches.
just hope the bugs are removed and stream lined. don't need to download a ptach that is lager that the install disk suppied as with the current updates and patches.
Vista was a bad mis-step for microsoft. the result.. they lost some marketshare. Win7 I think is a bigger deal than microsoft realizes. If they have a misstep again. I think you'll start to see a lot of businesses really start to re-evaluate things. (probably onto linux). I mean you cant have 4-6 years of crappy OS's comming out without any recourse. companies will have to upgrade sooner or later.. and most are probably waiting.. if this OS proves to be a blunder. I think Microsoft will really start to suffer. That being said. Linux, still has a long way to go from a supplier and product side. they will have to make ground in that area as well.
Vista was a bad mis-step for microsoft. the result.. they lost some marketshare. Win7 I think is a bigger deal than microsoft realizes. If they have a misstep again. I think you'll start to see a lot of businesses really start to re-evaluate things. (probably onto linux). I mean you cant have 4-6 years of crappy OS's comming out without any recourse. companies will have to upgrade sooner or later.. and most are probably waiting.. if this OS proves to be a blunder. I think Microsoft will really start to suffer. That being said. Linux, still has a long way to go from a supplier and product side. they will have to make ground in that area as well.
It is time for Microsoft to scrap the XP pedigree and start fresh. It worked for OSX and was arguably the moment Macs came of age. If Microsoft trashed everything and started fresh with an OSW 1.0, their lower prices and wider consumer base would guarantee a profitable migration even with all the orphaned software and hardware…then again, there could always be XP emulators for those who have to have their legacy software.
It is time for Microsoft to scrap the XP pedigree and start fresh. It worked for OSX and was arguably the moment Macs came of age. If Microsoft trashed everything and started fresh with an OSW 1.0, their lower prices and wider consumer base would guarantee a profitable migration even with all the orphaned software and hardware…then again, there could always be XP emulators for those who have to have their legacy software.
When I could see, I built PCs and they worked well. When I could no longer see to build PCs, or repair my own, I bought a Mac.
I unpacked it and turned it on. That was 24/7 over five years ago. The only thing I ever did to it was add memory and a DVD. It currently has four OS loaded. Last week I bought a new printer/scanner/card reader. I brought it home, pugged it in, and installed the software. End of story.
It is impossible to compare a MS OS to a fully functional Apple computer. If you want to make the comparison then bench test Linux, Mac and PC using the same hardware and same software. What you wil find is you invested $6k into three computers that do not have a nickles worth of difference in performans. One may be better gaming and the other in scientific formulae.
Mac and PC and Linux computers all have some type of problem at some time. It is a fact of life. No one unit is better than the other. Like toilet paper and laundry soap, computers are a personal choice – whether you are at home or you run a company and pay an IT to keep the compurers running. .
As far as viruses, I remember the fist one I had and the first time Gates was warned his software was going to invite vruses – and it did. And the same software is still being used ten years later. The only ones who get rich from the latest virus are the people who buy the anti-software, and the people who get paid to clean it up PCs used at home.
Mac may have an intel processor but that does not make Mac a PC. Nor does it make Mac any less secure than a PC.
Some day, browsers will be much smarter than they are today, all computers will be the same and problems like viruses and trojans will be a joke of the past. But it will not happen in my life time. And it will take a lot of educating and a lot more smart control gefore it happens. In the meantime we will all read silly articles written by a smart guy whose job depends upon getting a lot of comments from readers. The subject of computers does it everytime.
There is hope for the future.
When I could see, I built PCs and they worked well. When I could no longer see to build PCs, or repair my own, I bought a Mac.
I unpacked it and turned it on. That was 24/7 over five years ago. The only thing I ever did to it was add memory and a DVD. It currently has four OS loaded. Last week I bought a new printer/scanner/card reader. I brought it home, pugged it in, and installed the software. End of story.
It is impossible to compare a MS OS to a fully functional Apple computer. If you want to make the comparison then bench test Linux, Mac and PC using the same hardware and same software. What you wil find is you invested $6k into three computers that do not have a nickles worth of difference in performans. One may be better gaming and the other in scientific formulae.
Mac and PC and Linux computers all have some type of problem at some time. It is a fact of life. No one unit is better than the other. Like toilet paper and laundry soap, computers are a personal choice – whether you are at home or you run a company and pay an IT to keep the compurers running. .
As far as viruses, I remember the fist one I had and the first time Gates was warned his software was going to invite vruses – and it did. And the same software is still being used ten years later. The only ones who get rich from the latest virus are the people who buy the anti-software, and the people who get paid to clean it up PCs used at home.
Mac may have an intel processor but that does not make Mac a PC. Nor does it make Mac any less secure than a PC.
Some day, browsers will be much smarter than they are today, all computers will be the same and problems like viruses and trojans will be a joke of the past. But it will not happen in my life time. And it will take a lot of educating and a lot more smart control gefore it happens. In the meantime we will all read silly articles written by a smart guy whose job depends upon getting a lot of comments from readers. The subject of computers does it everytime.
There is hope for the future.
This article is nonsense. Windows 7 is BETA. Who said Vista drivers would work without issue on Windows 7? I can't believe this dribble was even published. One more thing, WINDOWS 7 IS BETA…. get it?
This article is nonsense. Windows 7 is BETA. Who said Vista drivers would work without issue on Windows 7? I can't believe this dribble was even published. One more thing, WINDOWS 7 IS BETA…. get it?
Who in their right might ever does anything but a CLEAN install of an OS. You have to be some kind of psycho masochist to attempt to upgrade an OS without a hard drive reformat!
Who in their right might ever does anything but a CLEAN install of an OS. You have to be some kind of psycho masochist to attempt to upgrade an OS without a hard drive reformat!
"BP: “There’s NO WAY businesses will move to Apple or even Linux. Sorry!”
Just like that!
Posted By Tommy, Tampere, Finland : February 26, 2009 3:00 pm"
read the comments of the vid
"BP: “There’s NO WAY businesses will move to Apple or even Linux. Sorry!”
Just like that!
Posted By Tommy, Tampere, Finland : February 26, 2009 3:00 pm"
read the comments of the vid
An operating system should be like a good referee. If it's doing its job you don't notice. Nobody turns on their computer with the intention of running pathches, upgrades, virus control, etc.
We turn on the magic box to check email, do work, watch videos, look at photos and surf the 'net.
Personally, I'm a MAC. The OS is clean and simple will giving all the bells and whistles quietly.
When Windows figures out that "notifying" the user is a disruption, it will start the path to a new OS.
An operating system should be like a good referee. If it's doing its job you don't notice. Nobody turns on their computer with the intention of running pathches, upgrades, virus control, etc.
We turn on the magic box to check email, do work, watch videos, look at photos and surf the 'net.
Personally, I'm a MAC. The OS is clean and simple will giving all the bells and whistles quietly.
When Windows figures out that "notifying" the user is a disruption, it will start the path to a new OS.
I have been the Windows 7 beta OS for a month now. its the best OS I have ever used, even beter that MAC OS 10. It is a giant step up from vista. It is flawless, and easy to upgrade to. VERY EASY! I never want to use any other OS again
I have been the Windows 7 beta OS for a month now. its the best OS I have ever used, even beter that MAC OS 10. It is a giant step up from vista. It is flawless, and easy to upgrade to. VERY EASY! I never want to use any other OS again
Who ever wrote this is an absolute idiot. This article is the dumbest and most painful thing I have EVER read. Its just some Apple loving freaks jabbering and jawing. I love my PC, in fact I look forward to windows 7. Until then I will use my XP and enjoy it. I do enjoy the games, and the office, and all the open source software. I love my new Google G1 phone.
Why would I buy a Mac? Can I play 1/1000th of the games that my pc plays? What about FUNCTIONALITY. A mac has the FUNCTIONALITY of what ever Steve Jobs says is ok.
And yeah why are your harping on a operating system that is in BETA?? Am I missing something here? Its like saying that when you are looking at a car you are analysing the WHOLE car based on the FRAME. Windows 7 is in the FRAME mode. Its like a house with no concrete walls.
HOW DARE YOU TALK BAD ABOUT A BETA.
IN MY OPINION YOU SHOULD BE FIRED!!
Who ever wrote this is an absolute idiot. This article is the dumbest and most painful thing I have EVER read. Its just some Apple loving freaks jabbering and jawing. I love my PC, in fact I look forward to windows 7. Until then I will use my XP and enjoy it. I do enjoy the games, and the office, and all the open source software. I love my new Google G1 phone.
Why would I buy a Mac? Can I play 1/1000th of the games that my pc plays? What about FUNCTIONALITY. A mac has the FUNCTIONALITY of what ever Steve Jobs says is ok.
And yeah why are your harping on a operating system that is in BETA?? Am I missing something here? Its like saying that when you are looking at a car you are analysing the WHOLE car based on the FRAME. Windows 7 is in the FRAME mode. Its like a house with no concrete walls.
HOW DARE YOU TALK BAD ABOUT A BETA.
IN MY OPINION YOU SHOULD BE FIRED!!
I run my whole business using MAC OSX. Yes Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Quickbook Pro., All Adobe Packages, Digidesign, etc. And I had one Security update to 19 on my windows gaming machine. Microsoft needs to get their crap together on what the customers want in a OS System. Both Windows & OSX could rock the rest out.
I run my whole business using MAC OSX. Yes Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Quickbook Pro., All Adobe Packages, Digidesign, etc. And I had one Security update to 19 on my windows gaming machine. Microsoft needs to get their crap together on what the customers want in a OS System. Both Windows & OSX could rock the rest out.
If it aint broke don't fix it.. Windows XP works very well on my dual core x2 4800 and 4 gig of ram. Why would i want a newer bloated version of windows? XP does the job well without limitations for anything i want to do… What advantage is there in upgrading to either vista or win v7 since it will require either a new machine or serious hardware upgrades. Not to mention hardware that that doesn't support newer versions of windows? Of course there are many versions of hackintosh osx86 on bitorrent if you are an apple fanboy.
If it aint broke don't fix it.. Windows XP works very well on my dual core x2 4800 and 4 gig of ram. Why would i want a newer bloated version of windows? XP does the job well without limitations for anything i want to do… What advantage is there in upgrading to either vista or win v7 since it will require either a new machine or serious hardware upgrades. Not to mention hardware that that doesn't support newer versions of windows? Of course there are many versions of hackintosh osx86 on bitorrent if you are an apple fanboy.
I have used Microsoft's Windows and Office for most of my career as a report writer for a government agency. Every upgrade has made my job easier. Over 23 years I have use Microsoft programs with no problems. I am happy with Windows. I am a PC.
I have used Microsoft's Windows and Office for most of my career as a report writer for a government agency. Every upgrade has made my job easier. Over 23 years I have use Microsoft programs with no problems. I am happy with Windows. I am a PC.
I'm flying my roflcopter over all the self proclaimed mac enthuiasts. you people are a joke!!! I can't stop laughing at all the people who say windows isn't secure enough or it's not as good as my mac because mine comes with a build in camera or hey my mac can run windows and macs OS's so it has to be better. ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL if a mac is so much better than a pc, then why isn't there uber amounts of software out there for macs? you know why mac's have a higher "secure" rating than PCs? because no one wants to waste their time hacking computers that aren't being used!!! besides I can spend 10X less money building a PC that will be 10X better than a mac.
I'm flying my roflcopter over all the self proclaimed mac enthuiasts. you people are a joke!!! I can't stop laughing at all the people who say windows isn't secure enough or it's not as good as my mac because mine comes with a build in camera or hey my mac can run windows and macs OS's so it has to be better. ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL if a mac is so much better than a pc, then why isn't there uber amounts of software out there for macs? you know why mac's have a higher "secure" rating than PCs? because no one wants to waste their time hacking computers that aren't being used!!! besides I can spend 10X less money building a PC that will be 10X better than a mac.
As a store manager of a technology business, I find this article ridiculous. Of course you are going to have blue screens when loading a beta, and of course you are going to have unknown devices etc as drivers have not been made for a beta system. All the quotes in their report make me want to say "Duh!". This isn't news to anyone who knows anything about operating systems. What a waste of time for whoever did the research. I can't believe this article made it online.
As a store manager of a technology business, I find this article ridiculous. Of course you are going to have blue screens when loading a beta, and of course you are going to have unknown devices etc as drivers have not been made for a beta system. All the quotes in their report make me want to say "Duh!". This isn't news to anyone who knows anything about operating systems. What a waste of time for whoever did the research. I can't believe this article made it online.
Whatever IT company is running these Windows 7 tests are idiots. Who would think stress testing a Beta OS is a good idea? I personally prefer a Mac because I prefer developing in a unix environment, but any sensible person would agree that a company invested in Windows XP or Vista would not attempt to switch to Mac or Linux. That would be insane. I'm pretty surprised at the number of people defending Vista on this site. That OS is such a joke. I guess some people who don't know how to protect their computer need their security spoon fed to them through popups and warnings that only a simple user would actually need. Vista was setup in a lab at my college when it first came out and engineers used to sit around it and have fun making it blue screen over and over again.
Whatever IT company is running these Windows 7 tests are idiots. Who would think stress testing a Beta OS is a good idea? I personally prefer a Mac because I prefer developing in a unix environment, but any sensible person would agree that a company invested in Windows XP or Vista would not attempt to switch to Mac or Linux. That would be insane. I'm pretty surprised at the number of people defending Vista on this site. That OS is such a joke. I guess some people who don't know how to protect their computer need their security spoon fed to them through popups and warnings that only a simple user would actually need. Vista was setup in a lab at my college when it first came out and engineers used to sit around it and have fun making it blue screen over and over again.
Dear snotty apple people. Shove it. I'm tired of being insulted over my choice of tools (MS Windows).
It works for me. I don't have problems. If OSX works for you, great. But take your zealotry and stuff it. I'm sick of hearing about how I'm willfully ignorant, or just don't know better. I've tried OSX (I've even got the newest cat their on, whatever it is) and am not impressed, my next notebook will not be a Mac.
Thanks
Dear snotty apple people. Shove it. I'm tired of being insulted over my choice of tools (MS Windows).
It works for me. I don't have problems. If OSX works for you, great. But take your zealotry and stuff it. I'm sick of hearing about how I'm willfully ignorant, or just don't know better. I've tried OSX (I've even got the newest cat their on, whatever it is) and am not impressed, my next notebook will not be a Mac.
Thanks
Well, if Ballmer referred to server market share it would have made more sense. But the author of the linked blog doesn't think so:
"Steve has a surprising view of the computing universe to put Linux before Apple. Most certainly, Linux's larger server share puts it overall ahead of Mac OS. But Steve wasn't talking about server here, but Windows client. So why rank Apple behind Linux?"
Just like the author of the blog, I think Ballmer is on purpose being dismissive of Apple.
As for the Linux, it's no secret that people at Microsoft are scared of what would happen if Linux was to gain any kind of popularity. Microsoft's strategy has been to hang on to dominant market share in OS business and use it as leverage to "invade" other markets, like internet browser, media players and etc. Moreover, it's the profits from OS/Office markets that let them move into areas like gaming (xbox360), mp3 players (Zune) and others.
I think that Ballmer is aware that if there was another viable OS alternative, particularly one that is free, Microsoft would become very vulnerable.
Well, if Ballmer referred to server market share it would have made more sense. But the author of the linked blog doesn't think so:
"Steve has a surprising view of the computing universe to put Linux before Apple. Most certainly, Linux's larger server share puts it overall ahead of Mac OS. But Steve wasn't talking about server here, but Windows client. So why rank Apple behind Linux?"
Just like the author of the blog, I think Ballmer is on purpose being dismissive of Apple.
As for the Linux, it's no secret that people at Microsoft are scared of what would happen if Linux was to gain any kind of popularity. Microsoft's strategy has been to hang on to dominant market share in OS business and use it as leverage to "invade" other markets, like internet browser, media players and etc. Moreover, it's the profits from OS/Office markets that let them move into areas like gaming (xbox360), mp3 players (Zune) and others.
I think that Ballmer is aware that if there was another viable OS alternative, particularly one that is free, Microsoft would become very vulnerable.
All of your opinions are irrelevant. If you look at the sales of all the operating systems, you'll find the majority of Vista buyers are from individuals buying new computers. Most business are stuck on XP wondering what to do next. Mac OSX and Linux are all showing growth, but most business for the time being are sticking with XP. What will happen in the future? We'll all have to wait and find out.
All of your opinions are irrelevant. If you look at the sales of all the operating systems, you'll find the majority of Vista buyers are from individuals buying new computers. Most business are stuck on XP wondering what to do next. Mac OSX and Linux are all showing growth, but most business for the time being are sticking with XP. What will happen in the future? We'll all have to wait and find out.
I am in the business of deploying systems to government and industry. No consumer products, thankfully.
We've successfully deployed Windows systems, just about every variant and Linux Systems, rolled in-house and Red Hat.
We are testing Windows 7 primarily using VM technology. So far the expected bumps, nothing earth shattering.
We have not deploy one Vista system. The standard reasons, drivers, resource consumption and customer preference.
We deployed one Apple system in a library application. Just not appropriate for our customer base.
With all that said, we are seeing increased acceptance of the Linux solution. The reason is not because of "Vista" but because of real reasons like cost, resource consumption, speed and security. We have not found any technical limitations using Linux and although there are differing issues between Windows and Linux, Linux is no more difficult to deploy in complex topologies.
Our visibility is NOT the consumer market so the issues of weird drivers is generally not an issue.
Finally, the principle complaint about the Microsoft produces we see is the cost and general frustration with the "features" Microsoft embeds that are self-centered and not in the interest of the customer.
Apple, Windows, Linux, all good systems. Each has its role and they will shift as market forces dictate. I don't see Microsoft's failures with Vista or Windows 7 as being the driving force for change, change away from Microsoft will be the broader problem of cost and perception.
// Rant = off
ex ped: That was no rant. In fact, it may be the most reasonable comment so far.
I am in the business of deploying systems to government and industry. No consumer products, thankfully.
We've successfully deployed Windows systems, just about every variant and Linux Systems, rolled in-house and Red Hat.
We are testing Windows 7 primarily using VM technology. So far the expected bumps, nothing earth shattering.
We have not deploy one Vista system. The standard reasons, drivers, resource consumption and customer preference.
We deployed one Apple system in a library application. Just not appropriate for our customer base.
With all that said, we are seeing increased acceptance of the Linux solution. The reason is not because of "Vista" but because of real reasons like cost, resource consumption, speed and security. We have not found any technical limitations using Linux and although there are differing issues between Windows and Linux, Linux is no more difficult to deploy in complex topologies.
Our visibility is NOT the consumer market so the issues of weird drivers is generally not an issue.
Finally, the principle complaint about the Microsoft produces we see is the cost and general frustration with the "features" Microsoft embeds that are self-centered and not in the interest of the customer.
Apple, Windows, Linux, all good systems. Each has its role and they will shift as market forces dictate. I don't see Microsoft's failures with Vista or Windows 7 as being the driving force for change, change away from Microsoft will be the broader problem of cost and perception.
// Rant = off
ex ped: That was no rant. In fact, it may be the most reasonable comment so far.
I found this article to be absolutely ridiculous. I'm no IT tech, but even I know that the beta version of ANY software WILL have bugs in it and will need patches, at least until the final version is released. That's why it's called BETA.
And there's NO WAY there's going to be a switch from Microsoft to Linux or Apple. The public is going to continue with Microsoft mostly because PC's tend to be cheaper and WAY more user friendly than Apple. I've dealt with Apple in school, and all I got out of Apple was headaches.
I found this article to be absolutely ridiculous. I'm no IT tech, but even I know that the beta version of ANY software WILL have bugs in it and will need patches, at least until the final version is released. That's why it's called BETA.
And there's NO WAY there's going to be a switch from Microsoft to Linux or Apple. The public is going to continue with Microsoft mostly because PC's tend to be cheaper and WAY more user friendly than Apple. I've dealt with Apple in school, and all I got out of Apple was headaches.
Vista was fine after SP1, and I now run vista 64bit without a problem on a network domain. Love it way more than XP. Windows 7 will go through the sam egrowing pains as the switch from 3.11 to 95, 98 to xp, and xp to vista. Any sane IT guy would just wait fro the 1st SP before upgrading. No big deal
Vista was fine after SP1, and I now run vista 64bit without a problem on a network domain. Love it way more than XP. Windows 7 will go through the sam egrowing pains as the switch from 3.11 to 95, 98 to xp, and xp to vista. Any sane IT guy would just wait fro the 1st SP before upgrading. No big deal
"The Macs are built on an impregnable Berkeley BSD distribution of UNIX, that’s why!"
Greg of Menlo Park
hahahahahahahaha… No such thing as an impregnable distribution of any OS.
"The Macs are built on an impregnable Berkeley BSD distribution of UNIX, that’s why!"
Greg of Menlo Park
hahahahahahahaha… No such thing as an impregnable distribution of any OS.
"During his annual “strategic update” conference call Tuesday, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer told Wall Street analysts that while Apple “has probably increased its market share over the last year or so by a point or more,” he was more focused on the competitive threats posed by Linux and Google (GOOG). "
Very interesting. Apple's market share has been around 8-9%, all Linux distros don't even crack 1% and Ballmer is more concerned about Linux? On another occasion Ballmer referred to Linux as cancer. As a Suse user I'm proud that Linux puts so much fear into Ballmer and the crew.
ex ped: Ballmer is worried about Linux in the server market.
"During his annual “strategic update” conference call Tuesday, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer told Wall Street analysts that while Apple “has probably increased its market share over the last year or so by a point or more,” he was more focused on the competitive threats posed by Linux and Google (GOOG). "
Very interesting. Apple's market share has been around 8-9%, all Linux distros don't even crack 1% and Ballmer is more concerned about Linux? On another occasion Ballmer referred to Linux as cancer. As a Suse user I'm proud that Linux puts so much fear into Ballmer and the crew.
ex ped: Ballmer is worried about Linux in the server market.
The real issue with windows 7 is the same issue with every windows OS – they will release it at what should really be the Beta stage. It won't really be ready to go until at least SP1, if not SP2. So I'll stick with XP long after VistaCrap is gone, and through the launch of 7 and wait until they finally release the OS they should have released in the first place.
Oh, and unfortunately I agree that the possibility of IT groups switching to Apple OS is zero. Linux… well, the likelihood of Linux going on any end user's system is zero – behind the scenes is a different question.
The real issue with windows 7 is the same issue with every windows OS – they will release it at what should really be the Beta stage. It won't really be ready to go until at least SP1, if not SP2. So I'll stick with XP long after VistaCrap is gone, and through the launch of 7 and wait until they finally release the OS they should have released in the first place.
Oh, and unfortunately I agree that the possibility of IT groups switching to Apple OS is zero. Linux… well, the likelihood of Linux going on any end user's system is zero – behind the scenes is a different question.
This article is rather bad. First, it's a beta OS. Can't expect it to run flawlessly, though on my laptop and my son's computer, it's been functioning quite well for some time now. If I do hapen to need a driver, I find Vista drivers work just fine. Also, other than being mildly annoying, Vista works just fine. I've been running it since release and have had almost no real problems with it. I don't care for the amount of resources it uses, but it has functioned quite well for me.
I don't mind Apples, I just have no use for them. Far too expensive for my taste. I can build a PC that is far better performing for much less money. And they can be difficult to find software for, at least the software I use.
This article is rather bad. First, it's a beta OS. Can't expect it to run flawlessly, though on my laptop and my son's computer, it's been functioning quite well for some time now. If I do hapen to need a driver, I find Vista drivers work just fine. Also, other than being mildly annoying, Vista works just fine. I've been running it since release and have had almost no real problems with it. I don't care for the amount of resources it uses, but it has functioned quite well for me.
I don't mind Apples, I just have no use for them. Far too expensive for my taste. I can build a PC that is far better performing for much less money. And they can be difficult to find software for, at least the software I use.
HAHAHAAHHA man so many people who think mac is great, i agree that mac is okay but its not near great, if mac gets no viruses why do they sell anti-virus software? "Just in case?" Right….google Mac OSX viruses, dumbbutts.
Vista is crap, I have XP and will stick with it for awhile might upgrade to Windows 7 in a year or two.
HAHAHAAHHA man so many people who think mac is great, i agree that mac is okay but its not near great, if mac gets no viruses why do they sell anti-virus software? "Just in case?" Right….google Mac OSX viruses, dumbbutts.
Vista is crap, I have XP and will stick with it for awhile might upgrade to Windows 7 in a year or two.
Right….. they'd be tempted to switch to Linux instead of back to their previously used operating system. This is a ridiculous article.
Right….. they'd be tempted to switch to Linux instead of back to their previously used operating system. This is a ridiculous article.
Wow.
As stated by others… trying to run new software on old systems.. yeah smart. *claps*
Oh no… there seems to be bugs in Windows 7 already. Wait its BETA software. *claps*
Lets see I am dual booting XP and 7 now with no issues. I re-partitioned my C drive… and… gasp.. booted from CD… and boom. Installed in like 20 minutes with no issues. Detected my sound, video, and all my motherboard drivers.
So to the person who wrote this article… stick with a typewriter, ok? Leave the computer stuff to the people who know what they are doing.
Wow.
As stated by others… trying to run new software on old systems.. yeah smart. *claps*
Oh no… there seems to be bugs in Windows 7 already. Wait its BETA software. *claps*
Lets see I am dual booting XP and 7 now with no issues. I re-partitioned my C drive… and… gasp.. booted from CD… and boom. Installed in like 20 minutes with no issues. Detected my sound, video, and all my motherboard drivers.
So to the person who wrote this article… stick with a typewriter, ok? Leave the computer stuff to the people who know what they are doing.
Problems with a few Bluetooth drivers on a Beta…wow, what a novel concept! I found windows 7 to run incrementally better on systems that barely would run Vista in our tests within our IT group at the company I work for. I am recommending a skip of Vista and waiting for Windows 7 go live hopefully this fall. Windows XP is more than adequate in the short term. And our staff has no intention of ever looking at Linux or Apple. People quickly forget that would be a end-user nightmare!
That this article is being linked to on CNN tells be a lot about the ignorance of CNN, Fortune, and the author. Come on…who approved this article?!?
Problems with a few Bluetooth drivers on a Beta…wow, what a novel concept! I found windows 7 to run incrementally better on systems that barely would run Vista in our tests within our IT group at the company I work for. I am recommending a skip of Vista and waiting for Windows 7 go live hopefully this fall. Windows XP is more than adequate in the short term. And our staff has no intention of ever looking at Linux or Apple. People quickly forget that would be a end-user nightmare!
That this article is being linked to on CNN tells be a lot about the ignorance of CNN, Fortune, and the author. Come on…who approved this article?!?
Someone below said Power of the press. Is this an ad for Apple? It read like one. Present me the facts not the opinion.
Someone below said Power of the press. Is this an ad for Apple? It read like one. Present me the facts not the opinion.
I love that this is posted by the apple reporter. Great job of refraining from ANY sort of bias. Is everyone a fanboy now?
I love that this is posted by the apple reporter. Great job of refraining from ANY sort of bias. Is everyone a fanboy now?
Solution to all of your worries. Quit using windows and switch to apple. Most companies doesn't switch to macs, because they have already wasted their money on windows computers and can afford to make of for this error. If you want stability and innovation at the same time, Apple is your best bet. If you want to continuously buy a new OS every year, have to constantly upgrade your hardware, deal with instability and viruses, and just plain complain about your aweful computer, then you should buy a PC!
Solution to all of your worries. Quit using windows and switch to apple. Most companies doesn't switch to macs, because they have already wasted their money on windows computers and can afford to make of for this error. If you want stability and innovation at the same time, Apple is your best bet. If you want to continuously buy a new OS every year, have to constantly upgrade your hardware, deal with instability and viruses, and just plain complain about your aweful computer, then you should buy a PC!
Odd article to say the least, but I expect it was written to provoke a response rather than to be informative. I work in both environments, and all platforms have their benefits and cost effectiveness. I can't vote for either of them, and I have Vista and Mac OSX at home and at the office. On the PC side the TCO is far less simply becasue the cost of comparative (if you can find it) software for the Mac. I don't have any problems with Vista, but it took a while to reach that point. Mac or PC fan, the world runs on Windows desktops at the moment, and it is unlikely to change soon, but history has shown that the Mac can steal market share from Microsoft on a regular and continuing basis, so the proverbial war is not over yet. And articles like this can only help Apple since those without the benefit of years of experience in IT will read it and beleive it. The power of the press presumably, however irresponsible it might seem.
RJB
Odd article to say the least, but I expect it was written to provoke a response rather than to be informative. I work in both environments, and all platforms have their benefits and cost effectiveness. I can't vote for either of them, and I have Vista and Mac OSX at home and at the office. On the PC side the TCO is far less simply becasue the cost of comparative (if you can find it) software for the Mac. I don't have any problems with Vista, but it took a while to reach that point. Mac or PC fan, the world runs on Windows desktops at the moment, and it is unlikely to change soon, but history has shown that the Mac can steal market share from Microsoft on a regular and continuing basis, so the proverbial war is not over yet. And articles like this can only help Apple since those without the benefit of years of experience in IT will read it and beleive it. The power of the press presumably, however irresponsible it might seem.
RJB
Jerry of Ontario:
By the same logic, the reason thieves do not rob Ft. Knox is because there is only 1 Fr. Knox and many 7-11s.
The Macs are built on an impregnable Berkeley BSD distribution of UNIX, that's why!
Greg of Menlo Park
Jerry of Ontario:
By the same logic, the reason thieves do not rob Ft. Knox is because there is only 1 Fr. Knox and many 7-11s.
The Macs are built on an impregnable Berkeley BSD distribution of UNIX, that's why!
Greg of Menlo Park
I did an install of the BETA on my Presario 6000 and aside from the audio drivers not being finished, 7 was solid as a rock and better than Vista in every aspect.
I've run XP, Vista and 7 on that machine, all with the same hardware. I didn't care for Vista, 7 is ok and I prefer to run XP on it for now… but 7, when it's done will go on that machine.
I did an install of the BETA on my Presario 6000 and aside from the audio drivers not being finished, 7 was solid as a rock and better than Vista in every aspect.
I've run XP, Vista and 7 on that machine, all with the same hardware. I didn't care for Vista, 7 is ok and I prefer to run XP on it for now… but 7, when it's done will go on that machine.
"much-maligned Windows Vista" You mean much-maligned by Apple commercials. I have run Vista flawlessly since its release. The idea that Vista is no good is so much BS. And Windows 7 is even better.
"much-maligned Windows Vista" You mean much-maligned by Apple commercials. I have run Vista flawlessly since its release. The idea that Vista is no good is so much BS. And Windows 7 is even better.
"Like other posters said, who tries to put a brand new OS on a 4 year old machine which wouldn’t even be able to use Vista?"
Um, I put Mac Leopard on a six year old machine, and the upgrade works flawlessly. I mean, absolutely flawlessly. No blue screens, no compatibility issues, nothing.
And the upgrade sure did a whole lot more than upgrading from XP to Vista can do for you.
"Shotty reporting."
Shotty comments from a loser who meant to preface its comments with the following warning:
THIS COMMENT ABOUT EQUALLY BAD OS's ONLY MAKES SENSE IF YOU PRESUME THAT EVERYONE ACCEPTS USES PC's.
"Like other posters said, who tries to put a brand new OS on a 4 year old machine which wouldn’t even be able to use Vista?"
Um, I put Mac Leopard on a six year old machine, and the upgrade works flawlessly. I mean, absolutely flawlessly. No blue screens, no compatibility issues, nothing.
And the upgrade sure did a whole lot more than upgrading from XP to Vista can do for you.
"Shotty reporting."
Shotty comments from a loser who meant to preface its comments with the following warning:
THIS COMMENT ABOUT EQUALLY BAD OS's ONLY MAKES SENSE IF YOU PRESUME THAT EVERYONE ACCEPTS USES PC's.
This sounds like an advertisement for a Mac. I wonder where the money is flowing behind the scenes.
Give me a break. If you think upgrading your PC to run Windows 7 is hard, try switching it from Windows XP to MAC OSX. The word impossible comes to mind.
This sounds like an advertisement for a Mac. I wonder where the money is flowing behind the scenes.
Give me a break. If you think upgrading your PC to run Windows 7 is hard, try switching it from Windows XP to MAC OSX. The word impossible comes to mind.
Working at a company with over 100,000 desktops, and laptops I can say we would NEVER do any kind of an upgrade in this mannger. All upgrades are done through a custom image.
In testing Windows 7 since Alpha stage I have done an install on every model of Thinkpads as old as T21's with 512MB of memory. It ran slow, but no BSD or errors.
Our Macs have just as many issues (when scaled to the number of Windows machines). Whats even better is having to pay $400+ for a video card on a 3 year old Mac when the same model video card can be bought for the PC for under $60! Also, as far as I'm aware you can't install the latest Mac OS on any hardware that they don't specifically say (like a 5 year old Mac).
Working at a company with over 100,000 desktops, and laptops I can say we would NEVER do any kind of an upgrade in this mannger. All upgrades are done through a custom image.
In testing Windows 7 since Alpha stage I have done an install on every model of Thinkpads as old as T21's with 512MB of memory. It ran slow, but no BSD or errors.
Our Macs have just as many issues (when scaled to the number of Windows machines). Whats even better is having to pay $400+ for a video card on a 3 year old Mac when the same model video card can be bought for the PC for under $60! Also, as far as I'm aware you can't install the latest Mac OS on any hardware that they don't specifically say (like a 5 year old Mac).
Jerry of Ontario…. that would be called a fresh install as it would cover over the OS already installed. They are saying that you can't upgrade (convert xp into windows 7 without first upgrading to vista)…
First off, Windows 7 is in BETA. Nothing ever works perfectly in BETA, if it did, they wouldn't call it BETA.
Second, the only reason viruses don't target Macs is that there aren't that many of them (Macs) in use. Various Windows OS make up such a huge percentage of the computers currently in use, that to design a virus to attack a different OS would mean so few targets that it becomes pointless (virus designers want to infect as many computers as possible). If Macs were to become the dominant computers, then I assure you that they will receive the most viruses, until then, MS is the target.
Third, Vista is junk. The only reason so many people switched to Vista is because they are no longer supporting XP. MS is forcing people to switch away from XP, giving them only three options. 1 = Vista, 2 = Wait for Windows 7, 3 = crapintosh or some other variant. Some went for option 1, most will go for option 2.
Personally, I'll wait until Windows 7 is in full release, then evaluate it for myself (waiting at least until the first service pack is released) before probably converting to it myself.
Jerry of Ontario…. that would be called a fresh install as it would cover over the OS already installed. They are saying that you can't upgrade (convert xp into windows 7 without first upgrading to vista)…
First off, Windows 7 is in BETA. Nothing ever works perfectly in BETA, if it did, they wouldn't call it BETA.
Second, the only reason viruses don't target Macs is that there aren't that many of them (Macs) in use. Various Windows OS make up such a huge percentage of the computers currently in use, that to design a virus to attack a different OS would mean so few targets that it becomes pointless (virus designers want to infect as many computers as possible). If Macs were to become the dominant computers, then I assure you that they will receive the most viruses, until then, MS is the target.
Third, Vista is junk. The only reason so many people switched to Vista is because they are no longer supporting XP. MS is forcing people to switch away from XP, giving them only three options. 1 = Vista, 2 = Wait for Windows 7, 3 = crapintosh or some other variant. Some went for option 1, most will go for option 2.
Personally, I'll wait until Windows 7 is in full release, then evaluate it for myself (waiting at least until the first service pack is released) before probably converting to it myself.
"As an architect for a Fortune 500 company I can safely say neither linux nor mac will be replacing the Windows PC anytime soon."
You mean those same companies that are falling because of the economic crisis?
"As an architect for a Fortune 500 company I can safely say neither linux nor mac will be replacing the Windows PC anytime soon."
You mean those same companies that are falling because of the economic crisis?
I assume the folks at CRN have never heard of Ghost or Altiris. Anyone who has worked in IT infrastructure or desktop support for that matter knows that images are the primary means of upgrading existing infrastructure.
Most large businesses use shared drives to backup user profiles and user documents.
In other words why upgraded when you can push down an image.
Linux and Apple do not offer the same kind of enterprise support Microsoft does. Microsoft SQL, Exchange, SharePoint, and all the existing AD-forests would be so incredibly costly to replace even with an open source solution… the prospect would never make it past the CTO's desk.
Respectfully,
Jeremy
I assume the folks at CRN have never heard of Ghost or Altiris. Anyone who has worked in IT infrastructure or desktop support for that matter knows that images are the primary means of upgrading existing infrastructure.
Most large businesses use shared drives to backup user profiles and user documents.
In other words why upgraded when you can push down an image.
Linux and Apple do not offer the same kind of enterprise support Microsoft does. Microsoft SQL, Exchange, SharePoint, and all the existing AD-forests would be so incredibly costly to replace even with an open source solution… the prospect would never make it past the CTO's desk.
Respectfully,
Jeremy
I can't believe this article was even posted. It's such garbage. Like other posters said, who tries to put a brand new OS on a 4 year old machine which wouldn't even be able to use Vista? Shotty reporting.
I can't believe this article was even posted. It's such garbage. Like other posters said, who tries to put a brand new OS on a 4 year old machine which wouldn't even be able to use Vista? Shotty reporting.
Philip Elmer-DeWitt:
Please don't EVER write a tech blog again. This is the most incoherent and ignorant article I've read in a long time.
Ugh, you're so dumb.
Philip Elmer-DeWitt:
Please don't EVER write a tech blog again. This is the most incoherent and ignorant article I've read in a long time.
Ugh, you're so dumb.
Cant up grade to windows 7 from xp?
what happened to booting from cd?
backup ur files, insert windows 7, restart your machine, press any key to boot from cd LOL who said they have to upgrade to vista first is LAME!!!
Cant up grade to windows 7 from xp?
what happened to booting from cd?
backup ur files, insert windows 7, restart your machine, press any key to boot from cd LOL who said they have to upgrade to vista first is LAME!!!
First I want to point out that this is an Apple blog. Which is why it is anti-Microsoft and publishes lies and falsifies.
Second, what moron attempts to install an advanced beta operating system on a 3-4 year old computer and expect it to work. Did you print your IT degree off the internet?
ex ped: A, if you're going to call a man a liar, I think you ought to specify what facts you think he has falsified. — The point of the Web Channel article is that a lot of businesses are running 3- and 4-year-old computers, and they will soon have a choice to make. If they want to get feel for what Windows 7 is like, they're probably going to install it on a few of those machines. If they try it on a Windows XP box (and 6 out of 10 PCs are XP boxes) they're likely to run into the kinds of headaches the CRN Test Center did. It was the Web Channel writer — not me — who suggested those headaches may be bad enough to make them consider switching to Linux or Mac OS.
First I want to point out that this is an Apple blog. Which is why it is anti-Microsoft and publishes lies and falsifies.
Second, what moron attempts to install an advanced beta operating system on a 3-4 year old computer and expect it to work. Did you print your IT degree off the internet?
ex ped: A, if you're going to call a man a liar, I think you ought to specify what facts you think he has falsified. — The point of the Web Channel article is that a lot of businesses are running 3- and 4-year-old computers, and they will soon have a choice to make. If they want to get feel for what Windows 7 is like, they're probably going to install it on a few of those machines. If they try it on a Windows XP box (and 6 out of 10 PCs are XP boxes) they're likely to run into the kinds of headaches the CRN Test Center did. It was the Web Channel writer — not me — who suggested those headaches may be bad enough to make them consider switching to Linux or Mac OS.
@ Maddawg
Just by your usage of the word "Noob" You betray your own ignorance of the subject at hand. Windows has a notorious reputation for having "known" problems that are never fixed until it is too late. So these driver problems? Well I think we all know that Windows will attempt to fix them with something temporary, and then get the nasty (if not expected) surprise of everyone hating the OS.
@ Maddawg
Just by your usage of the word "Noob" You betray your own ignorance of the subject at hand. Windows has a notorious reputation for having "known" problems that are never fixed until it is too late. So these driver problems? Well I think we all know that Windows will attempt to fix them with something temporary, and then get the nasty (if not expected) surprise of everyone hating the OS.
When "journalists" write articles like this that are so contrary to both my personal experience and other articles on Windows 7, you have to think they do it only to get more people hyped up and reading their material. I say just ignore the guy, he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, and just trying to increase readership.
ex ped: Dear GoodBye, this journalist doesn't pretend to have any first-hand experience with Windows 7 — he's never used it and hopes he never will. What he was trying to do was accurately report the experiences of the technicians at CRN's Test Center, who presumably do know what they're talking about. If you have a dispute with their report, I suggest you take it up with them.
When "journalists" write articles like this that are so contrary to both my personal experience and other articles on Windows 7, you have to think they do it only to get more people hyped up and reading their material. I say just ignore the guy, he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, and just trying to increase readership.
ex ped: Dear GoodBye, this journalist doesn't pretend to have any first-hand experience with Windows 7 — he's never used it and hopes he never will. What he was trying to do was accurately report the experiences of the technicians at CRN's Test Center, who presumably do know what they're talking about. If you have a dispute with their report, I suggest you take it up with them.
I have worked with Macs and Wintel machines in professional settings for a long time. In my experience, they both seem to have problems roughly the same amount of time. I will use whatever gets me the most power for the least amount of money as long as I can do what I want with an acceptable amount of "problems".
I have worked with Macs and Wintel machines in professional settings for a long time. In my experience, they both seem to have problems roughly the same amount of time. I will use whatever gets me the most power for the least amount of money as long as I can do what I want with an acceptable amount of "problems".
hahaha. This is such BS. First, any company (even small) with half a clue relies on images- not going to each PC and doing an actual upgrade.
Second, Apple doesn't have the support structure that enterprises demand.
There's NO WAY businesses will move to Apple or even Linux. Sorry!
hahaha. This is such BS. First, any company (even small) with half a clue relies on images- not going to each PC and doing an actual upgrade.
Second, Apple doesn't have the support structure that enterprises demand.
There's NO WAY businesses will move to Apple or even Linux. Sorry!
cmon you techno noobs!!!
it's an OS…not a world savior sent to keep all our souls from burning in the fiery pits of noobsville!
whats the big suprise? you have a new OS in BETA form that you don't have properly working drivers for???? since when is this news??
even a crapintosh OS has driver problems when it's in beta.
will the companies move to linux or apple at the desktop just because of a new windows beta having driver problems?? i seriously doubt it…not in any meaningful numbers anyway!
no, i rather suspect that anyone with at least half a brain working will be able to deal with windows 7 and any problems that may occur….
while on the other hand, i KNOW that the technologically challenged will continue to have problems after problems after problems after problems.
it's probably best that those types do use MACs, because there 'aint' no way in hell these noobs could even comprehend linux let alone spell it!
cmon you techno noobs!!!
it's an OS…not a world savior sent to keep all our souls from burning in the fiery pits of noobsville!
whats the big suprise? you have a new OS in BETA form that you don't have properly working drivers for???? since when is this news??
even a crapintosh OS has driver problems when it's in beta.
will the companies move to linux or apple at the desktop just because of a new windows beta having driver problems?? i seriously doubt it…not in any meaningful numbers anyway!
no, i rather suspect that anyone with at least half a brain working will be able to deal with windows 7 and any problems that may occur….
while on the other hand, i KNOW that the technologically challenged will continue to have problems after problems after problems after problems.
it's probably best that those types do use MACs, because there 'aint' no way in hell these noobs could even comprehend linux let alone spell it!
What a hoot – Sorry apple zealots I didn't use the proper context – Xserve. Apple fanboys are so darn sensitive on if you type the product name to the exact or you somehow know less about it and are not one of the "faithful". It must be some secret handshake they share.
My point was while apple makes some decent enterprise components they don't have the means or push these efforts. They push iMac's and macbooks. IT looks at things the other way.
It sounds like your neighboring school has zero control of their users and still allow open internet browsing. Don't have proper protection in place. We have well over 20,000 devices and have not been infected with any malware, trojan in years. IT costs money so be it apple or microsoft in this day and age you have to be properly protected as well managed. Apple has made some steps but no where near enough to every consider replacing on a large scale.
Maybe if they can start sharing roadmap and security patch information would be a good start along with a bare bones mac pro under $600.
I'll give you props though as Apple does have a nice education platform and software – it's where they started many years ago.
What a hoot – Sorry apple zealots I didn't use the proper context – Xserve. Apple fanboys are so darn sensitive on if you type the product name to the exact or you somehow know less about it and are not one of the "faithful". It must be some secret handshake they share.
My point was while apple makes some decent enterprise components they don't have the means or push these efforts. They push iMac's and macbooks. IT looks at things the other way.
It sounds like your neighboring school has zero control of their users and still allow open internet browsing. Don't have proper protection in place. We have well over 20,000 devices and have not been infected with any malware, trojan in years. IT costs money so be it apple or microsoft in this day and age you have to be properly protected as well managed. Apple has made some steps but no where near enough to every consider replacing on a large scale.
Maybe if they can start sharing roadmap and security patch information would be a good start along with a bare bones mac pro under $600.
I'll give you props though as Apple does have a nice education platform and software – it's where they started many years ago.
Philippe’s falling into the Reality Distortion Field again, even if the motto of his column is to be outside of it.
Let’s examine the statement which is the main premise of the article’s conclusion:
“When the information technology guys discover how painful it can be to upgrade their current PC hardware to Microsoft’s (MSFT) Windows 7 — the successor to the much-maligned Windows Vista — they may be tempted to switch to Linux or Apple’s (AAPL) Mac OS X.”
So, fanboys, the problems with the “much-maligned Windows Vista” have NOT been that bad after all, innit, because even Philippe implicitly concedes that with such a “maligned” software, these “information technology guys” were not “tempted to switch” to the divine OS…
Aaaah, I can hear the staunch Apple bandwaggoners cry, these geeky “information technology guys” have not even upgraded from XP to Vista, Ha Ha! You got me there, fanboys…so you think that changing the whole OS, replacing zillion computers and set-up is really easy and these “guys” will go for it! Yea, sure.
Philippe’s falling into the Reality Distortion Field again, even if the motto of his column is to be outside of it.
Let’s examine the statement which is the main premise of the article’s conclusion:
“When the information technology guys discover how painful it can be to upgrade their current PC hardware to Microsoft’s (MSFT) Windows 7 — the successor to the much-maligned Windows Vista — they may be tempted to switch to Linux or Apple’s (AAPL) Mac OS X.”
So, fanboys, the problems with the “much-maligned Windows Vista” have NOT been that bad after all, innit, because even Philippe implicitly concedes that with such a “maligned” software, these “information technology guys” were not “tempted to switch” to the divine OS…
Aaaah, I can hear the staunch Apple bandwaggoners cry, these geeky “information technology guys” have not even upgraded from XP to Vista, Ha Ha! You got me there, fanboys…so you think that changing the whole OS, replacing zillion computers and set-up is really easy and these “guys” will go for it! Yea, sure.
Ted from Tucson wrote: "…don’t suggest a datacenter should be converted to Apple’s X-Server (do they even make it still?)" and then "…I can go take the Apple certification any day and pass it but it’s worthless unless you want to work in the apple store."
Sorry, Ted, if you don't even know whether Apple still makes the Xserve (and you don't know how it's spelled), you'd probably not pass the test. See http://apple.com/xserve for a quick study.
"I supported 25 of them a few years ago" says Ted. Well, I support 400 Macs (300 of which are laptops) plus about 50 Windows PCs at a school, and they integrate with our Active Directory domain and Windows servers just fine.
I think you should have some current experience before spouting off. Apple has awesome tools to manage (and lock down) Macs, and they are much better now than even just a few years ago. But I like what I see in Windows 7 and applaud Microsoft's improvements.
I plan to keep a mix of platforms to avoid the problem a nearby school district is suffering right now. All Windows computers, and 3,500 computers out of commission for several weeks due to the latest Conficker variant. The teacher PCs were finally back in service this week after two weeks down, but the student computers will take into next week to be re-imaged.
We teach biodiversity for a strong ecosystem in biology class, and then some school districts fall into the trap of monoculture-think on their networks. Having two distinct platforms at our disposal and educational apps moving to the web, it is unlikely we'll ever suffer the same fate.
Ted from Tucson wrote: "…don’t suggest a datacenter should be converted to Apple’s X-Server (do they even make it still?)" and then "…I can go take the Apple certification any day and pass it but it’s worthless unless you want to work in the apple store."
Sorry, Ted, if you don't even know whether Apple still makes the Xserve (and you don't know how it's spelled), you'd probably not pass the test. See http://apple.com/xserve for a quick study.
"I supported 25 of them a few years ago" says Ted. Well, I support 400 Macs (300 of which are laptops) plus about 50 Windows PCs at a school, and they integrate with our Active Directory domain and Windows servers just fine.
I think you should have some current experience before spouting off. Apple has awesome tools to manage (and lock down) Macs, and they are much better now than even just a few years ago. But I like what I see in Windows 7 and applaud Microsoft's improvements.
I plan to keep a mix of platforms to avoid the problem a nearby school district is suffering right now. All Windows computers, and 3,500 computers out of commission for several weeks due to the latest Conficker variant. The teacher PCs were finally back in service this week after two weeks down, but the student computers will take into next week to be re-imaged.
We teach biodiversity for a strong ecosystem in biology class, and then some school districts fall into the trap of monoculture-think on their networks. Having two distinct platforms at our disposal and educational apps moving to the web, it is unlikely we'll ever suffer the same fate.
Windows has outlived it's usefulness for me unless I can wipe with it. I'm turning my Windows machine into a MythTV DVR and am already using OsX.
Mind you, I paid the full $400 for Vista Ultimate and gave it every chance.
Its slow and burns 2 times as many CPU cycles checking to see if I'm a legal owner of Vista, of Office, of the DVD I'm trying to play via DVI connection as it does in doing the work I paid $400 dollars for it to do!
What is it with America nowadays where businesses and governments are demanding I PAY THEM to check to see if I'm the CRIMINAL??!!
Security deposits, background checks, software activation, asking for very private information, DNA, blood tests, urine and stool samples (to say nothing of the dozens of documents I have to sign every year to prove I've been lectured by my altruistic employer like a child that just called someone a nicker or a beoyitch) AND now we are paying 10s of trillions to bail out these very same companies and governments that were so worried about being ripped of by US: we the consumer criminal classes??!!
The sooner these places are bankrupt the better. They've been morally bankrupt for decades now. Let's get on with it.
Windows has outlived it's usefulness for me unless I can wipe with it. I'm turning my Windows machine into a MythTV DVR and am already using OsX.
Mind you, I paid the full $400 for Vista Ultimate and gave it every chance.
Its slow and burns 2 times as many CPU cycles checking to see if I'm a legal owner of Vista, of Office, of the DVD I'm trying to play via DVI connection as it does in doing the work I paid $400 dollars for it to do!
What is it with America nowadays where businesses and governments are demanding I PAY THEM to check to see if I'm the CRIMINAL??!!
Security deposits, background checks, software activation, asking for very private information, DNA, blood tests, urine and stool samples (to say nothing of the dozens of documents I have to sign every year to prove I've been lectured by my altruistic employer like a child that just called someone a nicker or a beoyitch) AND now we are paying 10s of trillions to bail out these very same companies and governments that were so worried about being ripped of by US: we the consumer criminal classes??!!
The sooner these places are bankrupt the better. They've been morally bankrupt for decades now. Let's get on with it.
Users like JoeL remind me why it's great to have GPO and AD to help keep them confined to their own desktop so they don't take down the whole dang company.
I guess the world behind the "iTunes EcoSystem" is the way all companies should be run. Sorry but some people actually have to be productive and need to do more then "produce content".
Users like JoeL remind me why it's great to have GPO and AD to help keep them confined to their own desktop so they don't take down the whole dang company.
I guess the world behind the "iTunes EcoSystem" is the way all companies should be run. Sorry but some people actually have to be productive and need to do more then "produce content".
oh god. It seems the apple disinformation campaign is hard at work again.(This is probably what is meant by reality distortion field). Vista is awesome. Take it from a tech that migrated his company from xp to vista 2 years ago with no headaches. 99% of vista's issues are either user error or macolyte fud. It seems the itards are bad-mouthing 7 in the beta stage.
oh god. It seems the apple disinformation campaign is hard at work again.(This is probably what is meant by reality distortion field). Vista is awesome. Take it from a tech that migrated his company from xp to vista 2 years ago with no headaches. 99% of vista's issues are either user error or macolyte fud. It seems the itards are bad-mouthing 7 in the beta stage.
Reading some of the "Windows IT is easy" comments and the "owner of two OSX machines" that I assume he is using because he prefers Windows, I find it fascinating how problem-free Windows really is. He must be the only one.
And yet, in my wife's company, which runs XP for the entire salesforce (Ikon/Ricoh), I know it's really NOT that problem-free from first-hand experience.
I know it's your job guys and you fear change, but don't worry. The Windows virus is so intertwined with world business that moving away from a system as closed and proprietary as Windows will take at least a decade . . . about the time it takes MS to produce the next OS. You're looking at the computing world from behind a Windows Iron Curtain and can't imagine a world without it.
And by then who knows where we'll. Maybe we'll have rocket packs then too. But I'll still keep my four Windows XP machines far away from the WWW.
Not because I don't know how to lock down a Windows machine, but because I do know and use that time to produce content on my Mac which doesn't require such fastidious paranoia.
JoeL
Reading some of the "Windows IT is easy" comments and the "owner of two OSX machines" that I assume he is using because he prefers Windows, I find it fascinating how problem-free Windows really is. He must be the only one.
And yet, in my wife's company, which runs XP for the entire salesforce (Ikon/Ricoh), I know it's really NOT that problem-free from first-hand experience.
I know it's your job guys and you fear change, but don't worry. The Windows virus is so intertwined with world business that moving away from a system as closed and proprietary as Windows will take at least a decade . . . about the time it takes MS to produce the next OS. You're looking at the computing world from behind a Windows Iron Curtain and can't imagine a world without it.
And by then who knows where we'll. Maybe we'll have rocket packs then too. But I'll still keep my four Windows XP machines far away from the WWW.
Not because I don't know how to lock down a Windows machine, but because I do know and use that time to produce content on my Mac which doesn't require such fastidious paranoia.
JoeL
Choice is good news for all consumers. After almost a decades there is finally a reasonable choice with pros and cons.
Would like to point out that since ALL major PC vendors like Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo now have Linux offering Linux drivers are no longer an issue.
Also since 30% of netbooks sold are Linux there is now an ecosystem that is being built. Since there are users, companies are building drivers and applications. There will be more users as this ecosystem expands in a virtuous circle.
Choice is good news for all consumers. After almost a decades there is finally a reasonable choice with pros and cons.
Would like to point out that since ALL major PC vendors like Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo now have Linux offering Linux drivers are no longer an issue.
Also since 30% of netbooks sold are Linux there is now an ecosystem that is being built. Since there are users, companies are building drivers and applications. There will be more users as this ecosystem expands in a virtuous circle.
From the Onion: "It remains to be seen if Macs will catch on in the business world where computers are used for more than just dicking around".
From the Onion: "It remains to be seen if Macs will catch on in the business world where computers are used for more than just dicking around".
Just curious… What would be the reason to upgrade? Even if the bugs are worked out of Windows 7, the fact that it works isn't really much a reason on its own. Those IT support departments that realize that their job is to keep the users stable rather than try to chaise the latest and greatest marketing gimicks usually have greater success at much lower price. What value is Windows 7 offering compared to XP?
Just curious… What would be the reason to upgrade? Even if the bugs are worked out of Windows 7, the fact that it works isn't really much a reason on its own. Those IT support departments that realize that their job is to keep the users stable rather than try to chaise the latest and greatest marketing gimicks usually have greater success at much lower price. What value is Windows 7 offering compared to XP?
I love James comment about Macs being "all proprietary". That was true some years ago, but today Macs are PCs, period. Everything on a Mac of all flavors is off-the-shelf Intel compatible except that it also runs OS X.
And I'm a moron! You guys crack me up.
Every other PC IT guy I know still thinks Macs are PowerPC/RISC and System 9 and how moronic is that?
Don't you guys keep up with your own industry?
JoeL
I love James comment about Macs being "all proprietary". That was true some years ago, but today Macs are PCs, period. Everything on a Mac of all flavors is off-the-shelf Intel compatible except that it also runs OS X.
And I'm a moron! You guys crack me up.
Every other PC IT guy I know still thinks Macs are PowerPC/RISC and System 9 and how moronic is that?
Don't you guys keep up with your own industry?
JoeL
As a personal owner of two OSX machines and three Vista machines, and as an IT professional managing a mixed platform of 52 XP workstations and 11 OSX workstations, I find this article patently absurd.
Macs are definitely not without problems (I actually have bigger headaches when OSX machines fail, especially with hardware). In fact, our XP machines are much more problem free from both a hardware and software standpoint (I realize we're talking about Vista/Win7 now … just trying to dispel the notion that Macs are somehow magical, problem-free machines).
No qualified IT would upgrade in the manner this author theorizes. And moving off PC to Linux or OSX is the farthest thing from cost effective or pragmatically feasible. It's clear the author has no IT experience nor corporate experience.
As a personal owner of two OSX machines and three Vista machines, and as an IT professional managing a mixed platform of 52 XP workstations and 11 OSX workstations, I find this article patently absurd.
Macs are definitely not without problems (I actually have bigger headaches when OSX machines fail, especially with hardware). In fact, our XP machines are much more problem free from both a hardware and software standpoint (I realize we're talking about Vista/Win7 now … just trying to dispel the notion that Macs are somehow magical, problem-free machines).
No qualified IT would upgrade in the manner this author theorizes. And moving off PC to Linux or OSX is the farthest thing from cost effective or pragmatically feasible. It's clear the author has no IT experience nor corporate experience.
As an architect for a Fortune 500 company I can safely say neither linux nor mac will be replacing the Windows PC anytime soon.
Having said that, we are skipping Vista and going directly to Windows 7. Its nothing newsworthy to skip an OS.
I am not surprised Microsoft didn't waste their time supplying upgrade code. Doing a clean install will be better for everyone involved.
As an architect for a Fortune 500 company I can safely say neither linux nor mac will be replacing the Windows PC anytime soon.
Having said that, we are skipping Vista and going directly to Windows 7. Its nothing newsworthy to skip an OS.
I am not surprised Microsoft didn't waste their time supplying upgrade code. Doing a clean install will be better for everyone involved.
"The reality is that OS X already has all the industrial-grade server and distribution tools all based on the more compliant and solid Unix core that OS X is built upon. Most IT guys are trained in Windows and fear a mass migration away from the labor-intensive, virus ridden and trouble-shooting intensive world that is Windows of ANY flavor. What would they do, retrain? Problem is, Mac Enterprise systems require few man-hours and therefore, fewer employees."
Not sure how you run your systems or who you talk to but I don't touch my desktops one bit at all unless a hardware failure occurs or someone needs a piece of software added. I manage 125 desktops, 30 servers(blade centers included), all cisco network gear and firewalls. Seems to me if you take the end users bad habits out of the equation that Windows runs all the time everytime. No viruses and malware here. I don't use an alarm clock to get up as I get up when I like and stroll into work. This whole BS talk about saving systems and so much man hours is garbage if you know what you are doing and are not over your head in stuff you do not know how to control. Go talk to people that are not apologist for Apple and you find problems are in the Mac world just the same. My mom uses Vista and she know squat about computers and needs me for every little thing, but seems her computer runs all the time every time. Funny how most that have problems with their windows systems are the ones going out to porn sites and downloading from limewire. It goes back to the saying that you can't get anything for free. Apple has this problem coming as well as we have seen with the social engineering tactics that don't matter what OS your using. Most problems come back to user error, plain and simple. uptime 100% here folks.
Some of these commentators must be MS employees concerned for the future of their company. This article is perfectly consistent with the Vista experience which has been almost universally called a disaster. (The only dissenters being MS employees and family members and Windows die hards). XP was MS' last near achievement at a successful OS though it too has its problems. The only silver lining I've found in the current economic climate is that it has forced my company to delay a planned migration from XP to Vista. I agree with the commentator's views on MS's practice of outsourcing its development. The best tech schools in the world are in the US and I cannot believe MS' line that they cannot find adequate talent here. What BS from MS!
Some of these commentators must be MS employees concerned for the future of their company. This article is perfectly consistent with the Vista experience which has been almost universally called a disaster. (The only dissenters being MS employees and family members and Windows die hards). XP was MS' last near achievement at a successful OS though it too has its problems. The only silver lining I've found in the current economic climate is that it has forced my company to delay a planned migration from XP to Vista. I agree with the commentator's views on MS's practice of outsourcing its development. The best tech schools in the world are in the US and I cannot believe MS' line that they cannot find adequate talent here. What BS from MS!
This article has some misguided information. First, XP is a 8 year old OS. In Windows 7 the main OS is totally rebuilt and reorganized, so upgrading is impossible, unless you are doing a clean install while "upgrading". Most IT people do not reinstall, they use imaging software (free or commercial) to clean and re-image a machine. So this article is irrelevant. Plus it's a beta version. Windows 7 has newer builds already, and there will be many more, including at least 1 or 2 release candidates before it goes live.
This article has some misguided information. First, XP is a 8 year old OS. In Windows 7 the main OS is totally rebuilt and reorganized, so upgrading is impossible, unless you are doing a clean install while "upgrading". Most IT people do not reinstall, they use imaging software (free or commercial) to clean and re-image a machine. So this article is irrelevant. Plus it's a beta version. Windows 7 has newer builds already, and there will be many more, including at least 1 or 2 release candidates before it goes live.
I can understand the Mac on the desktop arguement but please don't suggest a datacenter should be converted to Apple's X-Server (do they even make it still?)
Any what's funnier is that IT people are in "fear of migration" – I support technology. I have used a Mac from the IIe/Classic – latest Mac Pro. I can go take the Apple certification any day and pass it but it's worthless unless you want to work in the apple store.
Do you honestly think a well staffed Fortune 500 company can / would cut half the staff because Mac's "work better and have fewer problems?" My friend I supported 25 of them a few years ago and I saw more issues then any week with XP. Part of the problem is Apple didn't provide enough system policies to lock down said Mac's (which by the way Apple user throw the biggest hissygfit).
And regarding if PC hard is still valid or not in a 3-4 year timeframe – the replacement cycle is usually 2 – 3 years just to keep current. When you have to manage and deploy thousands of machines you realize where Apple fails.
Keep your Mac for home use.
I can understand the Mac on the desktop arguement but please don't suggest a datacenter should be converted to Apple's X-Server (do they even make it still?)
Any what's funnier is that IT people are in "fear of migration" – I support technology. I have used a Mac from the IIe/Classic – latest Mac Pro. I can go take the Apple certification any day and pass it but it's worthless unless you want to work in the apple store.
Do you honestly think a well staffed Fortune 500 company can / would cut half the staff because Mac's "work better and have fewer problems?" My friend I supported 25 of them a few years ago and I saw more issues then any week with XP. Part of the problem is Apple didn't provide enough system policies to lock down said Mac's (which by the way Apple user throw the biggest hissygfit).
And regarding if PC hard is still valid or not in a 3-4 year timeframe – the replacement cycle is usually 2 – 3 years just to keep current. When you have to manage and deploy thousands of machines you realize where Apple fails.
Keep your Mac for home use.
There are sure a lot of 'fundamentalist' Mac users out there…. The reality is, there's a real need for Mac's and there's a real need for PC's, especially in enterprise IT. The great part is that blending the two into either a Windows domain or a Mac environment is getting easier. I'm using the Beta of Windows 7 and I really like it – no real issues at this point. I like Mac's too, but we're not at a point yet where we can rip and replace becuase people think they're better. Mac's have problems too…. anyone ever deal with the 'pinwheel of death'?
There are sure a lot of 'fundamentalist' Mac users out there…. The reality is, there's a real need for Mac's and there's a real need for PC's, especially in enterprise IT. The great part is that blending the two into either a Windows domain or a Mac environment is getting easier. I'm using the Beta of Windows 7 and I really like it – no real issues at this point. I like Mac's too, but we're not at a point yet where we can rip and replace becuase people think they're better. Mac's have problems too…. anyone ever deal with the 'pinwheel of death'?
well if you see teh start of the URL of this article, that explains all.
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/02/25/windows-7-trouble-on-the-upgrade-path/
by the way, if teh author thinks due to the glitch that "they" encountered, people are going to switch to Apple in businesses….keep dreaming.
There should be no problems, however even assuming that there are problems, its job security for IT people..Cheers..!
well if you see teh start of the URL of this article, that explains all.
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/02/25/windows-7-trouble-on-the-upgrade-path/
by the way, if teh author thinks due to the glitch that "they" encountered, people are going to switch to Apple in businesses….keep dreaming.
There should be no problems, however even assuming that there are problems, its job security for IT people..Cheers..!
In all of the organizations I've worked in, they have leased the computers and installed a fresh image. Even when XP was released, the new machines were rolled out with the new OS and the old ones were deprecated over time. Does anyone else here actually work in an IT department that would upgrade the OS like the article suggests?
In all of the organizations I've worked in, they have leased the computers and installed a fresh image. Even when XP was released, the new machines were rolled out with the new OS and the old ones were deprecated over time. Does anyone else here actually work in an IT department that would upgrade the OS like the article suggests?
Well I must say the new version of Ubuntu (intrepid) is pretty user friendly, Any old pleb can run linux now which wasnt really true a couple of years ago!
Secondly, Linux is all but able to natively run Windows programs now with Wine.
Third, its FREE!!!!!!!!!!! Imagine the cost saving on a commercial scale.
Well I must say the new version of Ubuntu (intrepid) is pretty user friendly, Any old pleb can run linux now which wasnt really true a couple of years ago!
Secondly, Linux is all but able to natively run Windows programs now with Wine.
Third, its FREE!!!!!!!!!!! Imagine the cost saving on a commercial scale.
Wow, what a bogus article.
Of course a review of Windows 7 written by a Mac writer is going to say how horrible it is.
Thanks for the "non-biased" reporting.
Switch to Apple on the enterprise? No thanks. I'd rather keep my job.
Wow, what a bogus article.
Of course a review of Windows 7 written by a Mac writer is going to say how horrible it is.
Thanks for the "non-biased" reporting.
Switch to Apple on the enterprise? No thanks. I'd rather keep my job.
Joel, you are a moron who really thinks that mac's require less man hours, I work in a mixed platform environment and almost ever apple machine has had some kind of failure and because its all proprietary requires me to ship it to apple for them to fix. and besides that IT guys have bigger things to worry about than just making sure a user's workstation is working, most IT people are already overworked with being a network admin, desktop support and supporting countless servers with virtualization, email support, etc.
Joel, you are a moron who really thinks that mac's require less man hours, I work in a mixed platform environment and almost ever apple machine has had some kind of failure and because its all proprietary requires me to ship it to apple for them to fix. and besides that IT guys have bigger things to worry about than just making sure a user's workstation is working, most IT people are already overworked with being a network admin, desktop support and supporting countless servers with virtualization, email support, etc.
Its beta code. There will be issues in beta software that will not exist in the end product. Anyone who doesn't understand that has no business doing reviews.
Also… anything less than a clean install = fail. Thats a no brainer any IT professional knows. We support over 50,000 client PCs and we reimage all our machines. Upgrades are so 1990.
Its beta code. There will be issues in beta software that will not exist in the end product. Anyone who doesn't understand that has no business doing reviews.
Also… anything less than a clean install = fail. Thats a no brainer any IT professional knows. We support over 50,000 client PCs and we reimage all our machines. Upgrades are so 1990.
I have been using Windows 7 since the bete released and it's run PERFECTLY – joined to a MS domain running all applications just fine. Really, the product is a BETA – let them do thier thing. You MAC users, you know you're not without issue here, so really, just shut up. You sound like the kid in college who thought he knew everything, but ended up looking like an idiot in the end.
I have been using Windows 7 since the bete released and it's run PERFECTLY – joined to a MS domain running all applications just fine. Really, the product is a BETA – let them do thier thing. You MAC users, you know you're not without issue here, so really, just shut up. You sound like the kid in college who thought he knew everything, but ended up looking like an idiot in the end.
The reality is that OS X already has all the industrial-grade server and distribution tools all based on the more compliant and solid Unix core that OS X is built upon. Most IT guys are trained in Windows and fear a mass migration away from the labor-intensive, virus ridden and trouble-shooting intensive world that is Windows of ANY flavor. What would they do, retrain? Problem is, Mac Enterprise systems require few man-hours and therefore, fewer employees.
No wonder we get strident anti-Mac comments whenever someone points out the obvious. It's like telling workers in the steam car industry their system is outmoded and about to be supplanted by gasoline engines . . . and of course, now, electric.
Let the fear and loathing begin . . . .
The reality is that OS X already has all the industrial-grade server and distribution tools all based on the more compliant and solid Unix core that OS X is built upon. Most IT guys are trained in Windows and fear a mass migration away from the labor-intensive, virus ridden and trouble-shooting intensive world that is Windows of ANY flavor. What would they do, retrain? Problem is, Mac Enterprise systems require few man-hours and therefore, fewer employees.
No wonder we get strident anti-Mac comments whenever someone points out the obvious. It's like telling workers in the steam car industry their system is outmoded and about to be supplanted by gasoline engines . . . and of course, now, electric.
Let the fear and loathing begin . . . .
The best thing to do is to erase your hard drive and install the full version of Windows 7 and any application you want.
For most people, this would include Office and little else.
This would be the simplest solution to upgrading to Windows 7.
Of course, Microsoft should not drop the ball by having many incompatible hardware configurations.
There should be a specification of what hardware combinations are going to be compatible – e.g. what chipsets, CPUs, motherboards, etc.
Such is Windows Hell.
But really, it is far worse to do Linux since there are so many things which are not compatible. The huge lack of drivers for Linux would drive IT mad.
Linux would necessitate a full installation from scratch anyway for any legacy hardware.
Thus, actually, the best solution – if affordable – is to buy completely new boxes with the OS pre-installed. This would reduce one's workload.
The best thing to do is to erase your hard drive and install the full version of Windows 7 and any application you want.
For most people, this would include Office and little else.
This would be the simplest solution to upgrading to Windows 7.
Of course, Microsoft should not drop the ball by having many incompatible hardware configurations.
There should be a specification of what hardware combinations are going to be compatible – e.g. what chipsets, CPUs, motherboards, etc.
Such is Windows Hell.
But really, it is far worse to do Linux since there are so many things which are not compatible. The huge lack of drivers for Linux would drive IT mad.
Linux would necessitate a full installation from scratch anyway for any legacy hardware.
Thus, actually, the best solution – if affordable – is to buy completely new boxes with the OS pre-installed. This would reduce one's workload.
In the early days of internet, there was few alternatives to AOL, so they as among the first providers could do whatever they wanted. But as the consumers have become more sophisticated, and the availability of alternative ISP has become widespread, AOL as an ISP is all but gone.
By NOT focusing on what the customers want, but rather what they hope the customers want, Microsoft is walking the path taken by AOL. If they do not change their approach and produce *clean* operating system as their costumers want, their days are numbered as AOL was.
Microsoft will face increasing competition from Linux OS. As Linux has become more mature and more user-friendly, consumers will have a real choice, and increasingly the choice isn't Windows.
In the early days of internet, there was few alternatives to AOL, so they as among the first providers could do whatever they wanted. But as the consumers have become more sophisticated, and the availability of alternative ISP has become widespread, AOL as an ISP is all but gone.
By NOT focusing on what the customers want, but rather what they hope the customers want, Microsoft is walking the path taken by AOL. If they do not change their approach and produce *clean* operating system as their costumers want, their days are numbered as AOL was.
Microsoft will face increasing competition from Linux OS. As Linux has become more mature and more user-friendly, consumers will have a real choice, and increasingly the choice isn't Windows.
Interesting how some comments say that a three year old machine is deadweight or an anchor and should not be upgraded. My almost three-year-old Mac Pro (the first Intel version) runs extremely well with Apple's latest, will run even better with the next release, and runs XP or Vista natively extremely well. I expect 3-4 more years until it becomes too old to be useful. Not only is it a joy to use, I am saving money by not feeling that I need to buy new equipment every few years.
Interesting how some comments say that a three year old machine is deadweight or an anchor and should not be upgraded. My almost three-year-old Mac Pro (the first Intel version) runs extremely well with Apple's latest, will run even better with the next release, and runs XP or Vista natively extremely well. I expect 3-4 more years until it becomes too old to be useful. Not only is it a joy to use, I am saving money by not feeling that I need to buy new equipment every few years.
Windows XP Pro is still the best Microsft OS out there. Windows 7 beta and Vista are the same memory-hogging OS' that I thought they were. If I had a choice between MS Windows 7, Mac OSX and Linux, I'd go with Linux. Linux platforms run circles around both Windows and Mac's.
Windows XP Pro is still the best Microsft OS out there. Windows 7 beta and Vista are the same memory-hogging OS' that I thought they were. If I had a choice between MS Windows 7, Mac OSX and Linux, I'd go with Linux. Linux platforms run circles around both Windows and Mac's.
After my experience with Vista, I have no desire to go through that again. After 2 years, I have finally gotten my desktop to run without fear of the BSOD(blue screen of death). My frustration with Vista lead me to my brand new Macbook, which I love.
After my experience with Vista, I have no desire to go through that again. After 2 years, I have finally gotten my desktop to run without fear of the BSOD(blue screen of death). My frustration with Vista lead me to my brand new Macbook, which I love.
Several who are bashing the article get hung up on this being a beta. That is not the point. The point is that Microsoft is planning to require you segway through Vista from XP to Windows 7. That will require labor. Labor that is hard to come by in an economic crunch like this, especially since people are still trying to figure out what substantive value Windows 7 brings to the table. In that context, if you have to suffer pain and agony over a double upgrade, why not put all the options on the table.
SaaS seems like a very real threat to Microsoft. For those who remember, Ken Olsen of Digital Equipment used to assert that people do not want PCs. That drove DEC's push towards X-Terminals. Unfortunately, he was off by 20 years and people bought the beaty of "simple" PCs. We're coming full circle again. PCs are complex and costly. Central management is once again vouge. Watch out MS. Soon you'll be competing against machines that just launch a web browser a-la X-terms. At that point, all we care about is a decent modern day "BIOS".
Several who are bashing the article get hung up on this being a beta. That is not the point. The point is that Microsoft is planning to require you segway through Vista from XP to Windows 7. That will require labor. Labor that is hard to come by in an economic crunch like this, especially since people are still trying to figure out what substantive value Windows 7 brings to the table. In that context, if you have to suffer pain and agony over a double upgrade, why not put all the options on the table.
SaaS seems like a very real threat to Microsoft. For those who remember, Ken Olsen of Digital Equipment used to assert that people do not want PCs. That drove DEC's push towards X-Terminals. Unfortunately, he was off by 20 years and people bought the beaty of "simple" PCs. We're coming full circle again. PCs are complex and costly. Central management is once again vouge. Watch out MS. Soon you'll be competing against machines that just launch a web browser a-la X-terms. At that point, all we care about is a decent modern day "BIOS".
For a second, I thought I was reading actual news on an real news site then I read this article. Nope! Not news.. Fantasy.
Please Mac fans.. Give it a rest. I mean, for the love of Jobs.. err.. I mean God. Give it a rest.
For a second, I thought I was reading actual news on an real news site then I read this article. Nope! Not news.. Fantasy.
Please Mac fans.. Give it a rest. I mean, for the love of Jobs.. err.. I mean God. Give it a rest.
Thanks Will from Atlanta for pointing out that most of comments here are made by casual users or enthusiasts rather than IT professionals to whom the opinion was addressed. Our game is different. When I have a "just a single missing driver" it is a big deal – there is nothing more expensive than that when you multiply it times 200 annoyed users. And this is the reason that business world still stays with XP – it satisfies all the current needs and it is stable by now. Since "cool" is not a factor in busines IT, Vista does not offer anything extra but a headache for both the support people and the users (try fielding 200 phone calls like, "Where is my My Computer icon.")
Unfortunately, migrating to Linux isn't an option. It is clearly more superior on the server side but besides basic office programs, it doesn't have specialized business programs on a desktop – accounting, financial analysis, business research, ERP, CRM, etc. Most likely, most ITs will stick with XP innitially until some "advanced" but clueless "enthusiast" exec will drag them into upgrade, at which point it will be painfull disaster and hours of downtime.
Thanks Will from Atlanta for pointing out that most of comments here are made by casual users or enthusiasts rather than IT professionals to whom the opinion was addressed. Our game is different. When I have a "just a single missing driver" it is a big deal – there is nothing more expensive than that when you multiply it times 200 annoyed users. And this is the reason that business world still stays with XP – it satisfies all the current needs and it is stable by now. Since "cool" is not a factor in busines IT, Vista does not offer anything extra but a headache for both the support people and the users (try fielding 200 phone calls like, "Where is my My Computer icon.")
Unfortunately, migrating to Linux isn't an option. It is clearly more superior on the server side but besides basic office programs, it doesn't have specialized business programs on a desktop – accounting, financial analysis, business research, ERP, CRM, etc. Most likely, most ITs will stick with XP innitially until some "advanced" but clueless "enthusiast" exec will drag them into upgrade, at which point it will be painfull disaster and hours of downtime.
This is Bull. I have the beta installed and there has not been one problem for me…even the install went well and seemed faster than previous installs. I have my computer dual booting Vista Home Premium and Windows 7 Ultimate Beta now. The difference (other than appearance) is the additional built in diagnostic programs and being more user friendly. I also noticed an increase in speed believe it or not. I use my 37" Aquos TV as a monitor; windows 7 seems to support larger monitors better than vista (of course this is just my opinion after all).
With regards to windows 7 doing better than Vista, I'm sure it will, but not enough to keep people from switching to Mac. In order to do this microsoft will have to make huge improvements to even retain all of its customers.
Finally, no one really knows what will happen; people seem to forget that the current release is just a BETA not the actual copy…thats why the final will be out in 2010 (who knows if it will be better for business apps.)…this time it seems like they will be doing more testing than they did on vista…so please don't assume no one will know.
This is Bull. I have the beta installed and there has not been one problem for me…even the install went well and seemed faster than previous installs. I have my computer dual booting Vista Home Premium and Windows 7 Ultimate Beta now. The difference (other than appearance) is the additional built in diagnostic programs and being more user friendly. I also noticed an increase in speed believe it or not. I use my 37" Aquos TV as a monitor; windows 7 seems to support larger monitors better than vista (of course this is just my opinion after all).
With regards to windows 7 doing better than Vista, I'm sure it will, but not enough to keep people from switching to Mac. In order to do this microsoft will have to make huge improvements to even retain all of its customers.
Finally, no one really knows what will happen; people seem to forget that the current release is just a BETA not the actual copy…thats why the final will be out in 2010 (who knows if it will be better for business apps.)…this time it seems like they will be doing more testing than they did on vista…so please don't assume no one will know.
"I think,even otherwise, it would be better to change to Linux or Apple. There is too much intrusion/snooping by Microsoft."
Huh???? Not sure I get what you are saying here? Go take a look at IBM's X force research group that listed the most vulnerable systems and which companies disclosed those vulnerabilites the most effecient. Guess what. All versions of Microsoft OS's were listed beneath Apple and Linux on both reports. So keep on with your false thinking and make sure you get some AV for that Mac, its coming your way now with the up in market share.
Here you go: www-935.ibm.com/services/us/iss/xforce/midyearreport/xforce-midyear-report-2008.pdf
"I think,even otherwise, it would be better to change to Linux or Apple. There is too much intrusion/snooping by Microsoft."
Huh???? Not sure I get what you are saying here? Go take a look at IBM's X force research group that listed the most vulnerable systems and which companies disclosed those vulnerabilites the most effecient. Guess what. All versions of Microsoft OS's were listed beneath Apple and Linux on both reports. So keep on with your false thinking and make sure you get some AV for that Mac, its coming your way now with the up in market share.
Here you go: www-935.ibm.com/services/us/iss/xforce/midyearreport/xforce-midyear-report-2008.pdf
Windows vista is more of eye candy for kids and is marketed for kids and older people because it looks cool.Linux has everything you need and does all that windows does and a hundren things it can't.Openoffice can
read and write microsoft office 2007 formats so no problems there and linux is free a big plus.you can buy support
for it if you need to but the os is open source so it is free and most of the software is to.I don't see a problem go to linux you have nothing to lose maybe a little time but that is it.
Windows vista is more of eye candy for kids and is marketed for kids and older people because it looks cool.Linux has everything you need and does all that windows does and a hundren things it can't.Openoffice can
read and write microsoft office 2007 formats so no problems there and linux is free a big plus.you can buy support
for it if you need to but the os is open source so it is free and most of the software is to.I don't see a problem go to linux you have nothing to lose maybe a little time but that is it.
All you have to do is read this…
http://download.parallels.com/resources/casestudies/Oregon_City_School_District.pdf
All you have to do is read this…
http://download.parallels.com/resources/casestudies/Oregon_City_School_District.pdf
The persistent willful ignorance of Windows sufferers never ceases to amaze me.
I have literally been reading the same tired smear of the Mac platform for over 20 years: "Mac is incompatible with Office", "Mac's are toys", blah blah blah… Every time you people spout this crap you only illustrate you own cluelessness. It reminds me of the blowhard know-nothing know-it-all that every office seems to have at least one of.
You obviously haven't spent any serious time trying to learn or understand the Macs capabilities since– what?– the early 2000s. Try educating yourself before you open your mouth and make yourself into an ass.
The persistent willful ignorance of Windows sufferers never ceases to amaze me.
I have literally been reading the same tired smear of the Mac platform for over 20 years: "Mac is incompatible with Office", "Mac's are toys", blah blah blah… Every time you people spout this crap you only illustrate you own cluelessness. It reminds me of the blowhard know-nothing know-it-all that every office seems to have at least one of.
You obviously haven't spent any serious time trying to learn or understand the Macs capabilities since– what?– the early 2000s. Try educating yourself before you open your mouth and make yourself into an ass.
Very Interesting.
So – if I remember correctly, Windows 2000 was written primarily by developers here in the United Stated.
Also, if I remember correctly, Windows XP was written by developers here in the United States, and some development overseas.
Then, Microsoft takes advantage of the Tech Bubble bust, increases the number of H1B visa issuances, and moves their development overseas. The resulting boondoggle that we now know of as Vista was ordered re-written by Balmer just 14 mmonths (?) before release…
Vista is released, and people discard it like trash to move back to something that worked – XP.
Observation: Microsoft Claims it can not find enough educated and qualified workers in the United States, and therefore has to look abroad for talent.
Sounds to me like the Emperor is wearing no clothes.
Domestic US developers successfully launched how many Windows variants? Lets see – Windows 3.0, 3.1. 3.11 WorkGroups, Windows NT3.11, Windows 95, Windows NT 3.5x, and 4.0, and Windows 98, 98SE, and Millenium, then came Windows 2000 and the vaunted XP.
Now Microsoft moves development overseas to cheapen the cost of development, and uses the cover lie (ahem – story) to claim they did it because they could not find talent here in the United States?
I submit that: 1) You get what you pay for. If Microsoft sent it overseas to take advantage of cost savings in development, then they realized the savings alright, but what they received was garbage. It happend the first time with Windows Vista, and now it seems that its gonna happen again with Windows 7.
2) As consumers, we should remember that we get what we pay for. If Microsoft is gonna do it on the cheap, we are gonna receive a cheap product.
Very Interesting.
So – if I remember correctly, Windows 2000 was written primarily by developers here in the United Stated.
Also, if I remember correctly, Windows XP was written by developers here in the United States, and some development overseas.
Then, Microsoft takes advantage of the Tech Bubble bust, increases the number of H1B visa issuances, and moves their development overseas. The resulting boondoggle that we now know of as Vista was ordered re-written by Balmer just 14 mmonths (?) before release…
Vista is released, and people discard it like trash to move back to something that worked – XP.
Observation: Microsoft Claims it can not find enough educated and qualified workers in the United States, and therefore has to look abroad for talent.
Sounds to me like the Emperor is wearing no clothes.
Domestic US developers successfully launched how many Windows variants? Lets see – Windows 3.0, 3.1. 3.11 WorkGroups, Windows NT3.11, Windows 95, Windows NT 3.5x, and 4.0, and Windows 98, 98SE, and Millenium, then came Windows 2000 and the vaunted XP.
Now Microsoft moves development overseas to cheapen the cost of development, and uses the cover lie (ahem – story) to claim they did it because they could not find talent here in the United States?
I submit that: 1) You get what you pay for. If Microsoft sent it overseas to take advantage of cost savings in development, then they realized the savings alright, but what they received was garbage. It happend the first time with Windows Vista, and now it seems that its gonna happen again with Windows 7.
2) As consumers, we should remember that we get what we pay for. If Microsoft is gonna do it on the cheap, we are gonna receive a cheap product.
It's BETA, BETA. Means unfinished product.
You don't think there are upgrade headaches with Macs? Are you kidding me? Ask people what happened when Apple switched from using PowerPC processors to Intel processors. A lot of applications wouldn't work from on to the other and a lot of new Apps wouldn't run on the PowerPC platform at all (iphone sdk for example). So even though you could technically run the latest mac os on a PowerPC MAC you couldn't run many of the Apps for that OS. Image the fire storm IT people would if IT people had to deal with that mess.
No OS is going to make IT people happy. There are always, always hardware concerns even with a MAC. Apple could switch from Intel again, not that they bought a semi conductor company no more than a year ago.
I'm not defending M$ here. I'm just trying to point out how ridiculously bad and premature this article is.
It's BETA, BETA. Means unfinished product.
You don't think there are upgrade headaches with Macs? Are you kidding me? Ask people what happened when Apple switched from using PowerPC processors to Intel processors. A lot of applications wouldn't work from on to the other and a lot of new Apps wouldn't run on the PowerPC platform at all (iphone sdk for example). So even though you could technically run the latest mac os on a PowerPC MAC you couldn't run many of the Apps for that OS. Image the fire storm IT people would if IT people had to deal with that mess.
No OS is going to make IT people happy. There are always, always hardware concerns even with a MAC. Apple could switch from Intel again, not that they bought a semi conductor company no more than a year ago.
I'm not defending M$ here. I'm just trying to point out how ridiculously bad and premature this article is.
Yes, there are probably a bunch of little glitches with Win 7 right now (it’s not released yet). The drivers are probably slightly problematic especially if you test older laptops. But let’s get real here, if your machine is not built for it, don’t do it! This is simple, wait for the upgrade cycle to go through and then move to 7. Good God.. Don’t shove a not even released OS on a 3 year old system (that will make these systems well over 4 years old when the OS will be ready to actually roll out on those boat anchors). That’s asking grandpa to run a marathon and win..
I’m not too sure about the company that switched to Mac and saved 3 million.. Sounds dubious to me. Our desktops are $400 a piece and AV software is dirt cheap in cost and labor (I don’t think I spend 1 hour / month on this task for over 100 desktops). I just don’t see how Apple will beat those costs. The headcount savings won’t wash either; I managed well over 100 desktops alone along with 50 servers (all XP or 2003) for many years with very few issues. Sorry.. Windows does work and quite well. Windows 7 is not bad as-is (meaning running with a whole bunch of debug binaries) and will be just fine when it is released. Pull for your team if you wish but keep an eye on reality.
Yes, there are probably a bunch of little glitches with Win 7 right now (it’s not released yet). The drivers are probably slightly problematic especially if you test older laptops. But let’s get real here, if your machine is not built for it, don’t do it! This is simple, wait for the upgrade cycle to go through and then move to 7. Good God.. Don’t shove a not even released OS on a 3 year old system (that will make these systems well over 4 years old when the OS will be ready to actually roll out on those boat anchors). That’s asking grandpa to run a marathon and win..
I’m not too sure about the company that switched to Mac and saved 3 million.. Sounds dubious to me. Our desktops are $400 a piece and AV software is dirt cheap in cost and labor (I don’t think I spend 1 hour / month on this task for over 100 desktops). I just don’t see how Apple will beat those costs. The headcount savings won’t wash either; I managed well over 100 desktops alone along with 50 servers (all XP or 2003) for many years with very few issues. Sorry.. Windows does work and quite well. Windows 7 is not bad as-is (meaning running with a whole bunch of debug binaries) and will be just fine when it is released. Pull for your team if you wish but keep an eye on reality.
There hasn't been a single Windows update that has come anywhere close to the promises MS has made over the years. XP hardly built upon previous successes and the market has declared Vista an abject failure. Promised productivity gains have become realized productivity losses. Who really thinks Windows 7 will be any different? Windows 8, 9… How about Windows X?
There hasn't been a single Windows update that has come anywhere close to the promises MS has made over the years. XP hardly built upon previous successes and the market has declared Vista an abject failure. Promised productivity gains have become realized productivity losses. Who really thinks Windows 7 will be any different? Windows 8, 9… How about Windows X?
So they have concerns about deploying a BETA OS and found it doesn't work right on 3-4 year old laptops? What kind of morons work in their "lab" Who in their right mind would even consider overlaying the OS as part of a actual deployment option?
Likely you would allign whatever upgrade to a hardware refresh. As much as you want to believe OS X has some future in the enterprise world it's simpely not going to happen.
1. User training would be involved
2. licensing costs for products not available on Mac – the "just put Parrells etc on the Mac" is not at all going to help your TCO when you pitch this to your CIO/CFO.
3. MANY internal homegrown applications would need to be ported to Mac. Not going to happen as most of the developers that wrote it have since retired of moved on and you have people just supporting this application now.
4. Apple has zero enterprise support and pricing is still not at the level we pay for a box.
5. Similar to above Apple doesn't share roadmap plans for planning out 2-3 of a support cycle.
6. No system management similar to SMS
Until the bulk of enterprise is working with web based software solutions any migration to another platform is flat out going to cost serious $$$$.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of companies just get along with XP as cost cutting measures is the lingo for this year.
So they have concerns about deploying a BETA OS and found it doesn't work right on 3-4 year old laptops? What kind of morons work in their "lab" Who in their right mind would even consider overlaying the OS as part of a actual deployment option?
Likely you would allign whatever upgrade to a hardware refresh. As much as you want to believe OS X has some future in the enterprise world it's simpely not going to happen.
1. User training would be involved
2. licensing costs for products not available on Mac – the "just put Parrells etc on the Mac" is not at all going to help your TCO when you pitch this to your CIO/CFO.
3. MANY internal homegrown applications would need to be ported to Mac. Not going to happen as most of the developers that wrote it have since retired of moved on and you have people just supporting this application now.
4. Apple has zero enterprise support and pricing is still not at the level we pay for a box.
5. Similar to above Apple doesn't share roadmap plans for planning out 2-3 of a support cycle.
6. No system management similar to SMS
Until the bulk of enterprise is working with web based software solutions any migration to another platform is flat out going to cost serious $$$$.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of companies just get along with XP as cost cutting measures is the lingo for this year.
"Apple’s Mac OS which is like a white elephant that doesn’t even have a good Word or excel equivalents"
Actually I read another article recently about a IT study that proved that the Office '07 runs about 60% BETTER (multiple factors considered) on a OS X then on ANY windows platform. I believe that article was on this site too.
"Apple’s Mac OS which is like a white elephant that doesn’t even have a good Word or excel equivalents"
Actually I read another article recently about a IT study that proved that the Office '07 runs about 60% BETTER (multiple factors considered) on a OS X then on ANY windows platform. I believe that article was on this site too.
Maybe they should can all of it and go back to using XP….I hear that you can still pay extra to uprade to XP.
Maybe they should can all of it and go back to using XP….I hear that you can still pay extra to uprade to XP.
This article is premature. Windows 7 is still in BETA. Of course there are going to be driver and compatibility issues from the onset. Those are the issues that BETA releases are meant to discover and fix! And as far as Macs having less problems with Viruses? That's false advertising.
This article is premature. Windows 7 is still in BETA. Of course there are going to be driver and compatibility issues from the onset. Those are the issues that BETA releases are meant to discover and fix! And as far as Macs having less problems with Viruses? That's false advertising.
it's funny to hear all the consumers on this blog suggesting that they know more than the folks that write for a magazine dedicated to IT professionals.
These people aren't buying for their friends or for themselves where their personal opinions or preferences matter; they're buying for organizations, where P&L, TCO, and ROI matters above opinion.
I'm cool with the mac vs. pc debate continuing, but perhaps there's also a place for listening to informed articles as well. If these folks are saying that Windows 7 beta is a problem and that it would indicate that installing the gold master will also be a problem, my guess is that they have more experience in that than most CNN.com readers who just happened upon this article while slacking off at work.
it's funny to hear all the consumers on this blog suggesting that they know more than the folks that write for a magazine dedicated to IT professionals.
These people aren't buying for their friends or for themselves where their personal opinions or preferences matter; they're buying for organizations, where P&L, TCO, and ROI matters above opinion.
I'm cool with the mac vs. pc debate continuing, but perhaps there's also a place for listening to informed articles as well. If these folks are saying that Windows 7 beta is a problem and that it would indicate that installing the gold master will also be a problem, my guess is that they have more experience in that than most CNN.com readers who just happened upon this article while slacking off at work.
I think,even otherwise, it would be better to change to Linux or Apple. There is too much intrusion/snooping by Microsoft.
I think,even otherwise, it would be better to change to Linux or Apple. There is too much intrusion/snooping by Microsoft.
Yeah I think this article is a joke.
Who would update their Thinkpad?
I've tried to get a Thinkpad T43 up to date with Windows XP service pack 3, and it was a pain. It has more to do with Lenovo's drivers (or lack thereof) than Windows.
I've been running the BETA version of Windows 7 since it came out on a "moderate for today's standard" computer. A low totem intel dual core, with 2 GB of ram, decent stand alone video card. It has been on my MAIN computer and it is currently my MAIN OS. I have the option of dual booting XP and Windows 7.
Windows 7 has run pretty flawlessly. The first impression is WAY better than Vista. It is much easier to use for the average user and is VERY stable for average use: internet, e-mail, word processing, music and movie storage and gaming. The only drivers that didn't automatically install were ones for my on board sound card which was an easy fix.
I haven't seen ONE blue screen. I don't run VMs or do anything crazy. I'm sure if you put any OS through the ringer you'll see it crash, especially if it is in BETA.
From what I've seen, I am very excited and WILL purchase Windows 7
when it comes out.
For businesses, I don't know. I'm sure Windows will allow upgrades from XP or at the very least have a workaround.
I think once people see that 7 is GOOD, they will upgrade and finally ditch XP.
Yeah I think this article is a joke.
Who would update their Thinkpad?
I've tried to get a Thinkpad T43 up to date with Windows XP service pack 3, and it was a pain. It has more to do with Lenovo's drivers (or lack thereof) than Windows.
I've been running the BETA version of Windows 7 since it came out on a "moderate for today's standard" computer. A low totem intel dual core, with 2 GB of ram, decent stand alone video card. It has been on my MAIN computer and it is currently my MAIN OS. I have the option of dual booting XP and Windows 7.
Windows 7 has run pretty flawlessly. The first impression is WAY better than Vista. It is much easier to use for the average user and is VERY stable for average use: internet, e-mail, word processing, music and movie storage and gaming. The only drivers that didn't automatically install were ones for my on board sound card which was an easy fix.
I haven't seen ONE blue screen. I don't run VMs or do anything crazy. I'm sure if you put any OS through the ringer you'll see it crash, especially if it is in BETA.
From what I've seen, I am very excited and WILL purchase Windows 7
when it comes out.
For businesses, I don't know. I'm sure Windows will allow upgrades from XP or at the very least have a workaround.
I think once people see that 7 is GOOD, they will upgrade and finally ditch XP.
After suffering through Vista at work and home…I am finally going to look into getting a Mac for my next laptop. I need to know that I can use Outlook/Excel/Word…
Microsoft is only giving me headaches and hurting my productivity at this point.
FYI – I've complained twice to Microsoft about the 20+ specific issues I have with the Vista system and each time I got a nice email from India asking me to have patience and telling me they WILL NOT help me get an upgrade or downgrade.
After suffering through Vista at work and home…I am finally going to look into getting a Mac for my next laptop. I need to know that I can use Outlook/Excel/Word…
Microsoft is only giving me headaches and hurting my productivity at this point.
FYI – I've complained twice to Microsoft about the 20+ specific issues I have with the Vista system and each time I got a nice email from India asking me to have patience and telling me they WILL NOT help me get an upgrade or downgrade.
Fred B. from Houston got the right answer from the get go. Duh, its a Beta. Ya think they address driver compatibility at the beginning of the development cycle or the end? This thing isn't due out 'til December, for gosh sakes. Give 'em a chance.
Fred B. from Houston got the right answer from the get go. Duh, its a Beta. Ya think they address driver compatibility at the beginning of the development cycle or the end? This thing isn't due out 'til December, for gosh sakes. Give 'em a chance.
SSS, You misunderstood. I laughed out loud because I thought "Duh? Who didn't see that coming?" And PED's response was classic. Nobody ever bothers trying to read his context, but just bashes him.
SSS, You misunderstood. I laughed out loud because I thought "Duh? Who didn't see that coming?" And PED's response was classic. Nobody ever bothers trying to read his context, but just bashes him.
As a 25+ year IT professional I will tell you that any OS upgrade that does not start with backup of important files and a hard disk format is doomed to failure. It does not matter what the OS is. An OS upgrade is not going to account for and remain 100% compatiable with all of the junk that people put on their machines over the years. I installed Vista several years ago on an older but newly formatted machine…..and it has worked great since…zero issues…and I expect to do the same with Windows 7. I can tell you that anyone who decides to take this silly advice and deploy Mac or Linux is likely going to look pretty stupid down the road. If you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself have a professional do it right…..the time you save will be worth the cost.
As a 25+ year IT professional I will tell you that any OS upgrade that does not start with backup of important files and a hard disk format is doomed to failure. It does not matter what the OS is. An OS upgrade is not going to account for and remain 100% compatiable with all of the junk that people put on their machines over the years. I installed Vista several years ago on an older but newly formatted machine…..and it has worked great since…zero issues…and I expect to do the same with Windows 7. I can tell you that anyone who decides to take this silly advice and deploy Mac or Linux is likely going to look pretty stupid down the road. If you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself have a professional do it right…..the time you save will be worth the cost.
What is the point of this article. The OS is still in Beta and there is still things to be worked out. Its funny seeing that you think the idea of moving to Mac or Linux is real easy and since you can't upgrade your XP it will just be easier to rip it all out and replace with something completely different. Some how cost over runs pop into my head on that one. Quite frankly even if I could upgrade to Windows 7 I would not because I don't believe in upgrades just like most of the professionals in IT that I know. I have been testing Windows 7 on a 5 year old Dell laptop and haven't had many issues at all. The Blue screen deal sounds like a piece of hardware with a buggy driver as blue screens are only caused by kernel level drivers. Sounds like we have a tech writer that is not to aware of the technology he writes about. Windows 7 has much performance improvement and I would be more than happy to roll it out to my old systems provided they tested out well and I give the go ahead. If they do not test out then I don't upgrade and wait for new hardware to be purchased. Are we making too big a deal out of this upgrade non sense? Absolutely.
Was there any mention of MS supporting upgrade paths from XP to Windows 7.
As per news from MS windows 7 will only allow "Clean upgrade" . Since this is beta this may change.
So testing something that something MS has not even commited to deliver and then saying it doesnt work. How is that a valid test
Was there any mention of MS supporting upgrade paths from XP to Windows 7.
As per news from MS windows 7 will only allow "Clean upgrade" . Since this is beta this may change.
So testing something that something MS has not even commited to deliver and then saying it doesnt work. How is that a valid test
Sounds like a typical Microsoft rollout. I enjoyed the comments more than the article as there was a mix of readers with accusations ranging from the reporting being anywhere from pro-Apple to Anti-Apple. I second the kudos for the "messenger shot" comment.
Sounds like a typical Microsoft rollout. I enjoyed the comments more than the article as there was a mix of readers with accusations ranging from the reporting being anywhere from pro-Apple to Anti-Apple. I second the kudos for the "messenger shot" comment.
The best solution I have found is to load Ubuntu (or some flavor of Linux) on your desktop as the primary OS – then use virtualization to run any other OS you would like. Windows 7 beta runs just fine as a VM.
The best solution I have found is to load Ubuntu (or some flavor of Linux) on your desktop as the primary OS – then use virtualization to run any other OS you would like. Windows 7 beta runs just fine as a VM.
Mike, Mike, Mike! Another typical PC lemming who has proven through his statement that he knows absolutely nothing about Macs and the Mac OS. I look for Windblows 7 to be a big blow to Microsoft in the consumer market. Two POS MS OS's in a row and John & Jane Public will be looking to Apple.
Mike, Mike, Mike! Another typical PC lemming who has proven through his statement that he knows absolutely nothing about Macs and the Mac OS. I look for Windblows 7 to be a big blow to Microsoft in the consumer market. Two POS MS OS's in a row and John & Jane Public will be looking to Apple.
Actually, I read an article recently about a company that switched all to Macs, and it said it was simple and quite painless. And if that weren't enough, they projected that they would save about $3 million overall as opposed to redoing their company with PCs. And they were happy of the fact they would be able to worry less about viruses and problems, while gaining more compatibility than they had with Windows. Neat article. Has got me thinking.
Actually, I read an article recently about a company that switched all to Macs, and it said it was simple and quite painless. And if that weren't enough, they projected that they would save about $3 million overall as opposed to redoing their company with PCs. And they were happy of the fact they would be able to worry less about viruses and problems, while gaining more compatibility than they had with Windows. Neat article. Has got me thinking.
I think this is the first time I've EVER read an article that listed switching to LINUX as an option AHEAD OF Mac!!
Surely a sign of the times … and that linux is a much bigger desktop threat than ever before. Any why not? It gets exponentially better every 6 months or so … Windows stays the same year after year after year. OSX is the only other viable OS out there that has a decent release cycle.
The question does arise though … at what point do the incompatibilities between Windows versions give Microsoft reason to break all compatibility with past releases and just make a brand spankin' new OS … the way Apple did going from OS9 to OSX.
Then we will see a truly leveled playing field …
I think this is the first time I've EVER read an article that listed switching to LINUX as an option AHEAD OF Mac!!
Surely a sign of the times … and that linux is a much bigger desktop threat than ever before. Any why not? It gets exponentially better every 6 months or so … Windows stays the same year after year after year. OSX is the only other viable OS out there that has a decent release cycle.
The question does arise though … at what point do the incompatibilities between Windows versions give Microsoft reason to break all compatibility with past releases and just make a brand spankin' new OS … the way Apple did going from OS9 to OSX.
Then we will see a truly leveled playing field …
i literally laughed out loud read i read the headline. then i read PED's "messenger shot" repartee and nearly snorted coffee out of my nose
i literally laughed out loud read i read the headline. then i read PED's "messenger shot" repartee and nearly snorted coffee out of my nose
The entire Office suite, including Word and Excel, is available for Mac. I send .doc files between the two platforms all the time. Any small company with aging hardware should certainly check it out. Wouldn't it be funny if Mac's Boot Camp was the only thing that could run Windows 7.
The entire Office suite, including Word and Excel, is available for Mac. I send .doc files between the two platforms all the time. Any small company with aging hardware should certainly check it out. Wouldn't it be funny if Mac's Boot Camp was the only thing that could run Windows 7.
You must be out of your senses to suggest that one should consider replacing Windows XP with Linux. This is the most naive suggestion I have read in recent times. Secondly, on one hand you alluded to 'worst economic decline' and in the same breath recommended considering Apple's Mac OS which is like a white elephant that doesn't even have a good Word or excel equivalents… Please think if not twice, at least once before writing an article.
ex ped: Messenger shot.
You must be out of your senses to suggest that one should consider replacing Windows XP with Linux. This is the most naive suggestion I have read in recent times. Secondly, on one hand you alluded to 'worst economic decline' and in the same breath recommended considering Apple's Mac OS which is like a white elephant that doesn't even have a good Word or excel equivalents… Please think if not twice, at least once before writing an article.
ex ped: Messenger shot.
this article is a joke.. first, they're testing an upgrade to a BETA1 of an operating system 6-9 months from shipment? second, they make no mention of the challenges of deploying something like MacOS inside of an organization – what distribution tools would they use? how much would it cost to buy all new hardware? QUite a bold call – After testing an initial beta, it could be more cost effective to buy all new hardware and deploy Mac OS in your organziation in spite of the incredible costs here and lack of enterprise mgmt tools…
this article is a joke.. first, they're testing an upgrade to a BETA1 of an operating system 6-9 months from shipment? second, they make no mention of the challenges of deploying something like MacOS inside of an organization – what distribution tools would they use? how much would it cost to buy all new hardware? QUite a bold call – After testing an initial beta, it could be more cost effective to buy all new hardware and deploy Mac OS in your organziation in spite of the incredible costs here and lack of enterprise mgmt tools…
I agree with the article, Windows *upgrades* have always sucked, period. Fresh install is your only option.
As for the ignorant Mac fan comments here, give it a rest. Why doesn't the IT world run on Macs? Because Macs are overpriced, and have squat for software, period. *ALL* of the Mac using engineers I went to school with, and now the one's I work with, run XP via virtualization because they can't find the software for their Macs. And if you want a PC that has as few problems as a Mac, buy a PC with decent hardware (too many people buy crap, and you get what you pay for). I've never paid under $2000 for any of my PC's, and guess what, I never suffer from the problems the (as I like to call them) mass-ignorant Windows users experience. 99% of the time the problem is between the PC and the chair.