Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: Sony says the war has just begun
Sony (SNE) executives in the United States are well aware that the battle has barely begun between their Blu-ray disc format for high-definition content and rival HD DVD, they told me over lunch this week.
Randy Waynick, senior vice president of marketing in Sony’s Home Products Division, said that Sony has sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 stand-alone Blu-ray disc players so far; that number does not include the hundreds of thousands of PlayStation 3 consoles that include a Blu-ray drive. That number is low enough, I told him, that it probably will be dwarfed by the number of high definition players that sell in the month of November alone. He didn’t disagree. (The holiday season and its discounts will really begin to shape the HD player landscape. Note: Microsoft (MSFT) has backed HD DVD with an add-on for the Xbox 360.)
Meanwhile, the rival HD DVD format is showing signs of life. Though fewer movie studios are backing the HD DVD format, the machines that play the discs are far more affordable than Blu-ray players. At Amazon.com, the Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player costs $250, and is the top-selling DVD player as of Thursday morning. Sony’s most affordable Blu-ray player, the BDP-S300, costs twice as much. The highest-ranked Blu-ray player on Amazon’s list is at #30.
Waynick said he believes one format, either Blu-ray or HD DVD, will win this format war – the players that combine both formats are just too expensive, he said. He acknowledged that Blu-ray’s price would be a big factor in determining which format wins, and said Sony is working hard to close the gap.
I pushed a bit on this point about price. If HD DVD players are already selling for $250, it’s conceivable that they could be at $199 or even less during the holiday season sales, I pointed out. If the Chinese manufacturers start building HD DVD players, the price will get especially low. How will Blu-ray compete? Waynick pointed to the larger volume of movies that are available in Blu-ray format, which is a decent argument.
But again, Amazon.com’s listings offered a powerful counterpoint Thursday morning. On the list of top-selling DVDs, Planet Earth in HD DVD format is ranked #4 – higher than the regular DVD versions of Seinfeld – Season 8, The Sopranos: The Complete First Season, and Ghost Rider. The top-selling Blu-ray title is Planet Earth – but it’s way down at #19. I’ve been checking for several days, and they’ve stayed in roughly the same positions.
What does this mean? Here’s my take:
Blu-ray has an early lead, but that doesn’t count for much. What matters is, who will have the lowest-priced high-definition players at a decent quality level when mainstream consumers finally start buying HD?
If the mainstream starts buying HD players this holiday season, expect to see HD DVD surge ahead of Blu-ray in a big way. Market makers like Wal-Mart will run with whatever player they can price below $200, just to draw people into stores. And most people in the mainstream won’t necessarily buy 10 HD movies; they’ll buy one or two, and wait for the studios to follow the installed base.
And if HD DVD sells big, you’d best believe the Hollywood studios will follow. Aside from Sony, they really don’t care which HD format wins – just as long as they get sell a lot more movies.
TO Those of you who are doing Research:
ONLY accept information as Truth if you see it on Company Letter Head — Meaning, don't listen to this second hand information.
TO Those of you who Believe that Certain Studios are backing a technology because it is better or will win the "WAR:"
SPARE ME, I happen to be an engineer in a management position in the aero space industry. Allow me to enlighten you in the rules of business. Studios and people are being paid off to make their movies exclusive to a platform. You see, a 50 million dollar "Endorsement" now may mean they will sell more and win the "WAR." Who wins the war; wins the pot o' Gold. Don't mix up Tech Details and Business. If tech details always won, then we would be driving cars that get 50 miles to the gallon and all look exotic because there made of Carbon Fiber composits. See my point yet….It's called politics or as I like to call it..Kissing hands and Shaking babies.
To Those of you who think there will be a winner:
You're right and you will not be it. You see, we all have VHS tapes and DVD and now we will be buying the same movies for the third time on an Ultra Violet laser based system. Sounds like the only winners are the Business profiting off our sorry but.
To Those of you who think this technology is the end all be all:
Sorry, you probably paid 500 for the first DVD player and a few hundred for the first VHS. Just as new cars come out every year; new formats, compression ratios, and technology come out every 10 years. Don't believe me, look back in time.
YES, I actually do have a preference of one of the two formats; however, this is like choosing a politician. It's the arguement of who is the lesser of the Devils.
MY OPINION AND VIEW POINT:
Notice how I said Opinion, people before this claim they know facts, but I saw no Hyperlinks to Company Release Memos.
I love John Lennon, but the man is dead, and buying his music on yet another format is a little dumb. He obviosly does not benefit, and a trickle gets to his next of kin.
We need to Push Owner Ship of Intellectual Property. That means when you purchase your Lennon Songs, you should be able to download them and put them on whatever Medium you want. 8 Tracks to the future Cube Technology. Here's the deal, they got you by the nuts, and you keep purchasing the same stuff because they made a new format. That's like buying a new computer because a new OS that looks prettier came out and needs more power……HUH?!?
We need to stop supporting stupid advances in Technology. The new TV's that have more Detail are good, but to buy Field of Dreams for the fifth time is just dumb.
Go on, obviously you have a thousand dollars to have your little war. I'll see you in ten years when both technologies are replaced. You're thousand will have given you an obsolite piece of machinery and some old movies. My thousand will have turned to Ten Thousand.
If your going to fight for something, fight for not getting bamboozled.
YOUR CALL………..Peace.
Again we are screwed in the USA. This is where the govt needs to put there foot down an say what the standard is. Like make it all 1080p so every company can come out with the best product. Like many posts note most people cannot tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. Especially if they are not side by side. Once you get the TV in your home, either one looks good. AS for BR vs HD. Pros and cons to both. However, if you do research you will find out that BR is not complete, and the players on the market will not be able to access all the features of new movies released in 2008 or later. The machines do not have the firmware. HD is complete, and can be updated. BR currently has a little more support, however as of 8-21 Paramont and Dreamworks, with the exclusion of Speilberg movies will now only produce movies for HD. Just when it looks like BR was taking the lead. Point of note is that HD is region free. With this in mind, other countries besides the USA put movies on both HD and BR. So in essence the video library of HD just got huge. Just order a copy from another country. As for BR the best deal is the PS3. Why? It is the only BR that can be updated and it is basically a computer with much more processing power than any BR. Yes, you can use it strictly for BR if you like. Not to mention it is already internet friendly, and Sony is actually providing frequent updates. It is the same price as their cheapest BR player. Also, it loads faster.
It is cheaper for companeis to make HD as compared to BR. Also, who needs all that storage space for a movie and some features. HD has plenty of storage space. It is all marketing. 1080p TV will not be here until 2014. 1080p TV is only good if you have a BR or HD, to recieve the full benefits. There is no broadcast standard for hdtv, so images change on you HDTV set.
Do not get me wrong, but it would be nice if you did not have to use the screen functions on you HDTV to see the full screen in 1080i or 720p.
The average person wont car about 1080p. Most people will just go with whatever one they are offered first, or just stay with dvd cause it is just dandy.
there are a lot of good points made on here, but i think in the end its all about the convinience which one offers. im leaning towards HD, even though i know that Blue-ray is better…and yes i have a 360.
The average person wont car about 1080p. Most people will just go with whatever one they are offered first, or just stay with dvd cause it is just dandy.
there are a lot of good points made on here, but i think in the end its all about the convinience which one offers. im leaning towards HD, even though i know that Blue-ray is better…and yes i have a 360.
It's amazing to hear all of the people talking about their HD or BD investments being obsolete when this war is over. Guess what folks, it doesn't matter which format wins, your investments will prove to be wasted money anyway. Does anyone here remember what cost of a DVD player was when they first came out? If you've already bought either an HD or BD player then YOU OVER-PAID ANYWAYS! In my opinion, buying a player right now will be a waste of money because you know that the prices will be less then half by this time next year. If you're one of those gurus who needs to have the latest and greatest technology just remember this; you're willingness to fork over the big bucks first helps the manufacturers make massive profits to be able to bring the same technology to the masses at a huge discount (i.e. the microwave). Remember when microwaves first came out? They were almost $1000. Now you can buy one for $100. After this war is over, the people who purchased either player format will be the real losers here. And I must thank those buyers, because their frivolous spending is helping me to obtain the same technology cheaper and sooner. THANKS GURUS!!!!!!!!!
I'm really do not care who wins. However, have one of you look at Blue-Ray DVD?
The clue, notice how shiny and durable coating on this disk is. Compare to frugal DVD and HD-DVD it is a better design. Blue-Ray has something over HD-DVD.
This is freaking ridiculous!!! I just want to play movies in the best resolution possible, 1080p. I cant do that with a standard DVD, i need either an HD-DVD or a Blu-Ray disc, and both require a certain player to be used. But i dont want to pay 200-400 dollars on an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movie player and then one or the other loose, become obsolete, and my money be wasted and my new hi def player be useless. Thankyou Toshiba, thankyou Sony I HATE BOTH OF YOU!!!!!!!
I had a HD-DVD A20 and then I got the BDP-S300 as well. I was a big Toshiba / HD-DVD supporter. Guys, I hate to admit, but blu-ray is better in sheer Picture quality. I have a Sony KDS-55A2000 and the picture from the BDP-S300 is just too good. My Toshiba A20 does not even come close. And I am very very surprised. Plus with Blockbuster's decision to go with Blu-Ray, has pretty much given Blu-Ray a comfortable lead in the format wars. Cheers !
I just have to say this. i have been reading qoutes from both formats, giving misleading and untrue information. Followed by this, is a list of people posting comments on how the war is over and their format is dominating. both are wrong and this holiday season isn't going to be the end of it. even if HD got squashed in the holiday season. They still have plans to put HD players in a good portion of computers made in 2008 and they now have the market for independant movies in 2008 as well (thanks to amazon and microsoft.) these facts could be a huge impact in sales for the coming year.
none the less – this is all unimportant. It doesn't matter which format wins the war – you all lose when one finally does. The only way the consumer wins this war is if ALL the studios get their heads out of their behinds and stop with the exclusives. we live in an era where choice is the best option and competition works in favor of the consumer. it makes both products keep their prices lower and forces them to always be creating new improvements for their system. Regardless of what side you have taken, you shouldn't want the other side to lose. You also should want movie studios to go exclusive to your product. It prevents non-buyers from becoming buyers and it hurts the market all over the place.
The best thing that could happen in this war is if the EU antitrust comes back with information stating that the studios must drop their exclusives. then and only then can both formats survive. If they can both exist at the same time – you will find more consumers buying either product… not to mention cheaper prices and better updates and improvements.
I have seen a petition online from HD users asking the exclusive studios to drop their blu ray exclusives. I also saw one from blu ray users asking the same of universal. the only way anything will be accomplished (aside from the EU antitrust) will be if both sides work cooperatively along side non-buyers to make a petition asking all the studios to drop their exclusives and give the consumer the option of which player best suits their needs. it would make a huge impact if the studios not only saw both sides working together for this, but also non-buyers stating they want to invest in a system but not until they know their favorites could possibly end up on the next gen system they choose.
The studios always back their decision by stating "we think we chose the right system in the format war." well its high time you all band together and tell these studios that it shouldn't be their decision – it should be yours and all the individual consumers. And that choice shouldn't go away. It will hurt everyone when it does.
I just have to say this. i have been reading qoutes from both formats, giving misleading and untrue information. Followed by this, is a list of people posting comments on how the war is over and their format is dominating. both are wrong and this holiday season isn't going to be the end of it. even if HD got squashed in the holiday season. They still have plans to put HD players in a good portion of computers made in 2008 and they now have the market for independant movies in 2008 as well (thanks to amazon and microsoft.) these facts could be a huge impact in sales for the coming year.
none the less – this is all unimportant. It doesn't matter which format wins the war – you all lose when one finally does. The only way the consumer wins this war is if ALL the studios get their heads out of their behinds and stop with the exclusives. we live in an era where choice is the best option and competition works in favor of the consumer. it makes both products keep their prices lower and forces them to always be creating new improvements for their system. Regardless of what side you have taken, you shouldn't want the other side to lose. You also should want movie studios to go exclusive to your product. It prevents non-buyers from becoming buyers and it hurts the market all over the place.
The best thing that could happen in this war is if the EU antitrust comes back with information stating that the studios must drop their exclusives. then and only then can both formats survive. If they can both exist at the same time – you will find more consumers buying either product… not to mention cheaper prices and better updates and improvements.
I have seen a petition online from HD users asking the exclusive studios to drop their blu ray exclusives. I also saw one from blu ray users asking the same of universal. the only way anything will be accomplished (aside from the EU antitrust) will be if both sides work cooperatively along side non-buyers to make a petition asking all the studios to drop their exclusives and give the consumer the option of which player best suits their needs. it would make a huge impact if the studios not only saw both sides working together for this, but also non-buyers stating they want to invest in a system but not until they know their favorites could possibly end up on the next gen system they choose.
The studios always back their decision by stating "we think we chose the right system in the format war." well its high time you all band together and tell these studios that it shouldn't be their decision – it should be yours and all the individual consumers. And that choice shouldn't go away. It will hurt everyone when it does.
Who keeps complaining about no online ability in their Blu Ray players made so far?
My PS3 / Blu-Ray player has an awesome internet connection and i can download trailers to blu-ray dvds also.
What's to stop them from sending me Blu-Ray Ps3 firmware updates when needed?
Besides.. most reviews say the PS3 Blu-Ray player is the best on the market… and you get a kickass game system with it!…
So I consider it.. i'm getting a the PS3 for $250 and a Blu-Ray player for $250…
Hence Blu Ray players already cost the same as HD-DVD players
Every person here needs to realize this war is not about movie sales!!! Its about disc sales. Its not about how you will be watching your movies!! Its about whose disc you will be using in your computer to make disc. Once this point is realized then you can see who the victor is in this pointless battle. Read your Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers and it will tell you every week that blu ray is currently outselling the competition as far as movies are concerned. HD may have one movie on the top of every thing else (amazon.com) but if i sell ten copies of one movie and you sell eight copies of 3 movies then we know the obvious winner in that battle unless you cant add!
Now realize that capacity is everything. Love it or hate it its the driving force in the business. "I want more stuff in less space!" That is the reason why hard drives get bigger and faster every single day. So heres the facts of the matter!
1. Capacity: HD released their new 3 layer 45 GB disc to compete with blu ray (JUN 07 pick a magazine.) Blu ray's response (JUN 07) 4 layer 100 GB BD-RW. Winner Blu ray
2. Cost. HD has a ten year plan to get out of the red currently losing about 200 dollars for every player sold. (Sega tried this technique with dreamcast. Sell low so more are bought and you make the money back overtime. SEGA went BANKRUPT.) Blu ray invested their tecnology into every system in the sony corporation. Result Blu ray player sales down 13% Disc sales up 12% Blu ray Writers(Business) up 45% Playstation 3 Sales down 3%. Blu ray also plans to drop prices because now they have their factories and technology built. Winner you decide.
3. Access: Hd has one exclusive Universal. With that realize that that is no small feat since universal is 20% of the movie industry.
Blu ray, Five exclusive companies, and now Blockbuster exclusive rights for rentals. Realize that BB still accounts for 48% of the rental market after netflix and every other mom and pop rental stores take their share. Winner DUH
4. Worldwide acceptance:
UK BR 74%
Japan BR 92%
China BR 78%
Germany BR 67%
Middle east HD 74%
US as of 24 june 07
that week BR 70%
this year BR 67%
Since inception you guessed it BR 59%
Dont forget hd started making disc before blu ray
Also if your wondering you can buy 10 bootleg movies in iraq on one hd disc for about 15 bucks if your wondering why middle east chose hd Winner Figure it out
So there are the facts.
Stop talking about one looks better than the other and sound quality is better on this on than that one and realize
Blu ray has
BR movies BR games BR 100 GB burnable disc
HD has
HD DVD movies HD DVD 45 GB burnable disc
For the 360 fans your games are NOT on HD Disc its a dual layer 9.6 gb regular dvd so I want no grief from you guys in this war. YOU DONT COUNT. Microsoft proved how much they believed in HD when they made HD DVD an OPTION!! But dont worry give it a year and Blu Ray will be an OPTION as well.
Oh and so you know major backers of MICROSOFT intel and HP both said they support blu ray. ooops
PC owners can now build PC's with Blu Ray drives around $450.00. They still cost more than HD DVD drives though. But there are more blu ray drives too choose from.
What now HD DVD.
Has anybody considered both of these formats may fail? With HD tv to the house and on demand movies becoming a reality. Could we see that take off instead of people running out to buy discs?
This could be like the Mini-Disc vs the other format war where both lost out to MP3s and the internet.
As time passes by players will be as cheap as DVD players now. Oh, by the way, here is a right uppercut from Blu-Ray…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070618/tc_nm/blockbuster_bluray_dc_4
Appears Blockbuster has chosen Blu-ray over HD-DVD. More and more it seems I'm getting my money's worth.
Hahahahahaha! I have to chuckle as I scroll through these posts. I'm very happy for you all since you have such disposable income as to waste it on new technology. I've seen movies in the best screening rooms, the worst second-run theatres, on video-disc, laser-disc, Beta, VHS, DVD, and HD-DVD. I've got to remind you that it's the MOVIE that makes the biggest difference, not the screen. I'll be fleeced along with the rest of you when I have to give up my standard DVD player someday because it won't read the new formats, but for crying out loud!– I'll wait until I'm FORCED to, and pick it up for $50. I don't care who wins the "war". All I care about is: can I watch the movies I want to buy, rent, or check out from the library?
Blu-Ray is still suffering growing pains. Several of the major studios are
holding off on releasing Blu-Ray titles until BD+ and fuller BD-J support is
available in all released players.
I think Apple could be the "king maker" in this format war. A long time ago they chose Blu-Ray. They have yet to do anything on this front.
If they start releasing computers with the (Blu-Ray) drive built-in the hype alone will put the format over the top.
The market will see it as the "acceptance" of one format over another and people will then start to purchase the video players; more as the price points drop.
Actually, you're wrong. Never did I once say that. Only reference I made to picture was the fact Sony held onto MPEG2 way longer than they should've. MPEG2 should've never been used for films this generation.
Also note that certain films that are exclusive to Blu-Ray here, are on HD-DVD in other countries. Over at xploitedcinema.com they have Underworld Revolution for HD-DVD. Here in the states, they only offer it on Blu-Ray (Because its a Sony owned movie). How can this be? Well studios in other countries buy the rights to the film and can put it on any format they choose. They also have Terminator 2 Judgement Day, Reign Of Fire, The Prestige, Rambo Trilogy, plus more all in HD-DVD. Here in the states, you can only buy those titles on Blu-Ray. Oh yeah, HD-DVD Players and Discs are REGION FREE. These discs will work just fine on US Players.
Blue-ray disc vs HD DVD disc.
Disc…we don't need no stinkin disc. Both have become dinosaur eggs before they even hatched. While they battle it out other technologies are passing them by.
@dobyblue
Digital Laserdisc was developed by Pioneer in 1985. Even though it was used, the first consumer models (sell through) were not introduced until two years later. Videodisc introduced Jaws in 1978. It's a fine line between the two but the comment above was referring to digital. Anyone who owned one of the earlier machines would always call it videodisc, and anyone who owned both would not say that they were anywhere close to the same thing. I never owned a videodisc player, but I did own a LD player, also a 1st Toshiba DVD player. Anyway, I stand corrected, as I did not realize laser disc was created in 85, therefore making it 20 yrs old. My apologies Anthony Liz.
clintalso – the first laserdisc was released in 1978, it was Jaws.
That's 29 years ago, sorry. DVD was WAYYYY behind laserdisc.
sony is so full of it no one is buying stand alone blu-ray players there to excpensive and hd dvd isn't going anywhere fast both are two kids in a playground yelling at each other spreading lie's one say's a lie the other spreads another lie and people belive the side they won't to belive and while all this is going on one company is just walking in behind them and spreading fast over seas and is already in the states selling hd players for $200 hd vmd and don't cost any different then dvd's and play hd movies. you can belive anything on the web anymore
Actually ChrisDVD you're wrong, HD DVD does not have a higher average picture rating when you look at the reviews.
Looking at High Def Digest, Home Theater Spot, DVD Talk, Upcoming Discs and Home Theater Forum combined there are 783 Blu-ray reviews and 668 HD DVD reviews as of June 1st, 2007.
Here's the breakdown:
PQ
HD DVD – 3.92
Blu-ray – 3.93
SQ
HD DVD – 3.71
Blu-ray – 3.96
Blu-ray, clearly the best overall choice for picture and sound quality.
Anthony Liz, just to let you know, Laserdisc was not out anywhere close to 20 years. It was the immediate Predecessor to DVD. When DVD first appeared, it was less adequate spec wise than Laserdisc as far as quality goes (Specially sound) but it was superior in features (It introduced the menu concept to home video media). As far as thinking large album shaped discs that contained movies are concerned, there was an original format even before the Beta/VHS war that was known as Videodisc. These came in hard plastic shells that were required to actually put the movie in the player.
As I said before, I have both formats, and if the you can pick up a lower cost HD player for close to $200, I would. I think that you will enjoy the picture it presents, even in 1080i. I have $25,000 invested into my home theater, and I would have to believe I wouldn't be as happy if I didn't have the choice right now between the two formats. I think the war is dumb. I also feel if Sony doesn't pick up the pace on moving some PS3's, then it may all be a moot point, and the war will be done.
The real deciding factor in this war will be Wal-Mart. There had been the rumor that they were looking to support one or the other if they could get a low cost player made. Even though the original leak of the story came from the HD camp, I think they were just looking to get a mass manufacturer. If that happens, the distributors will be forced to follow their lead as they make up for 45% of all dvd media sales in NA.
Anyway, you are right, enjoy what you have. That is the most important thing. Just I would like to wee a lot less people bashing others just for their decisions. Let's not turn a format war into a physical one.
@IRISHCALIBER
I'm not a ps3 fan boy. I own all systems, ps3, xbox360, and wII, and If you are refering to laser disc as a losing format, then maybe you should read your history. Laser Disc lasted over 20 years. From the way you talk you're probably not old enough to know what a laser disc is. One thing is for sure, there will never be a winning format. There will always be something new on the horizon. Anyhow, I'll remember you IRISHCALIBER when the BD vs HDVD war is over.
You know what the funny thing is about being one side instead of open minded, is that you are always going to be let down. I remember when people used to talk about the HD capicity in the disc until blu-ray excelled in that. My favorite, HD has mpeg4/vc-1…so does blu-ray. Technology is great. Blu-ray was the first to support 1080p, but now I believe HD-DVD is coming with new players.
Anyway, format war is a waste of time. My recommendation is go with what you like the best. I choose blu-ray and I'll be happy, no matter what anyone says. If bluray loses, so what? What do you get out of it? You just made a company richer. lol
Ummm sorry Chuck McD…the A20 can be had for 399 or less… Sony's latest BDPS300 is 499. Still a 100 difference. As for capabilities..last I checked Sony's latest can't encode TruHD or DTS MA, but wait –the A2 can. Just an FYI… both formats are equal in PQ and AQ. As far as content, there really hasn't been any major BR release for the past few months, with the exception of POTC. Universal has quite a line up coming in this summer and for the rest of the year.
@ Anthony Liz, I am afraid to state the obvious but you seem to be good at picking the losing formats. By the way plug the Ethernet cable into the back of your computer before you start researching your formats of choice. PS3 Fanboy = PWNED Unaware Sony fan,
HD-DVD one format to rule them all!
I just figured I would add my two sense into this as I have owned both formats since 11-20-06. (Day after PS3 release). I watch mine projected by arguably the best 720p/1080i projector (Panasonic AE-900u) on a 133" Dalite High Contrast Screen. I normally watch 2-3 HD (either format) a week, if not more (when I am not travelling for work). I rent them off of Netflix, and have been on nothing but HD since 11-06. What I have noticed is that I am still seeing a lot of Mpeg2 formats from Bluray. The company that has released the best looking Blurays has been Disney, and they have consistently encoded with either VC1 or AVC (don't remember off the top of my head). My HD-DVDs look better, other than the comparable Disney Pics, than the Blurays. I know I can't always do side by side comparisons, but I have rented every movie that I purchased that has been made for both formats (Aeon Flux, Departed and a few others I cannot remember), and I switched from one to the other. The colors were brighter and more defined on the HD in direct comparison, and I have typically noticed brightness issues only from the Blurays. I really did not care at the beginning of this war, and when I started to care, I felt I was caring for the losing side, as the sheer Studio support for the BD side looked to be a winning factor. Every time I think Toshiba should just cave they come back and hang in there.
I really think the biggest losers in the whole deal will be the enthusiusts that bought the first Samsungs and Sonys for the 1G ticket price, and that won't be able to get the online content. I also rarely watch commentaries, but I do enjoy my deleted scenes in films, and if they start making more available only by download, then I would be out.
As a gamer, I watch all these people (fanboys as most call them) give undying support to Sony. I don't really understand it. Sony makes some quality equipment, and if you never have a problem it's great. I used to sell electronics, and when it came to products that needed repairs due to a manufacturing issue, the one company you could be sure didn't care how much you were left without said product was Sony. I had a PSX that died on me, and I lost my third PS2 in Nov right before I decided I would make a go with the PS3. I don't hate Sony, as I also had owned a videography business, and we went exclusively with the Sony Cameras (PD-150 and VX-2000), and never once had an issue. I would also recommend those to anyone.
I do think they need to just go with the flow sometimes though. Where is the support for DLP? I guess they just want to battle TI and make Bravia instead. Why can't we be happy with cds? Why do we need MDs? (Though they are awesome to record on). Why couldn't thye have just settled into the first HD format? This war is completely their fault. One side or the other will have spent a lot of money for nothing.
One more thing, I do feel bad that Beta never took, as if there was one thing Sony should have had go their way, that was it.
ChrisDVD -
-All good points… I do agree that Sony (BD in general) should have had everything in order before launch. I'm glad at this point I haven't jumped in on anything yet.
-My breaking point is $400 on any player. I want 5.1 Audio outs with on board encoder because I don't want to shell out more $ for a new receiver that accepts the new HDMI for Lossless and/or PCM. The 2 lower Toshibas don't have that feature.
-Its hard for me not to buy something right now. I think the new Panasonic looks like it could be a winner as well
-One last thing for me is the movies… most of what I want is on Blu-Ray and is BD exclusive (Prestige, Casino Royale, Holiday, Pursuit of Happiness, Black Hawk Down, Kingdom of Heaven, POTC 1 & 2, and Spiderman eventually as well as other Disney down the road). Others that I want are from Warner and Paramount and are on BD as well as HD DVD (except Batman, which will be on BD eventually)
I'll buy a player by Christmas later this year.
Pete
Pete -
Never said "stop playing". Perhaps I should've been a bit more clear. Here is a better example – cover box of Blu-Ray X movie will say it can connect to the internet and do something cool. When in fact that will not be true with most (if not all) current generation players.
Lossless audio is the same as uncompressed with bits re-arranged (not discarded) to make the filesize smaller – hence the word "Lossless". Audio engineers here where I work (I am an author of both formats) have said time and time again there is no difference between them. The player itself might be skewing it however. This was a problem with both formats when they were first released.
I have paperwork in front me that says – "Profile Type 2 (Full Profile) players are due in 1st quarter 2008". Like I was trying to say, you'll need a new hardware player to get the MOST out of Blu-Ray. If you're someone that doesn't care about bonus content, such as director's commentary or PiP, then that's personal taste. Some people like it while others do not.
Up until Casino Royale, MOST of Sony's Blu-Ray Titles were encoded in MPEG2. And if you wanted to make Blu-Ray titles you had to go to Sony to have it encoded and authored or buy their toolset which only supported MPEG2 at the time. Sony holds partial MPEG2 patent, which is why they held onto it in this generation for so long.
Getting back on track now. Bottom line is HD-DVD comes with everything you'll need to enjoy your discs. Whether you care about bonus content or not. For Blu-Ray, you'll have to buy a newer player to get ALL of the features on future titles. But if you could careless about bonus content, then current Blu-Ray players will work for you.
And I am not trying to scare anybody. I'm just trying to tell people the truth.
I'm not in this war, but I have chosen a direction, and that is blu-ray. I currently own a PS3 and will be purchasing the upcoming Panasonic Blu-ray player with the 5 free movies. I've done a lot of research and based on what I've found, I believe I'm spending my money wisely. I know many will disagree, but like I said, I've done extensive research for almost a year.
For example, this article mentions Planet Earth. If you read the reader reviews of the HD-DVD you will find reviews of people posting that the HD-DVDs would not play on their DVDs. The name alone is confusing for some and misleading for others. People are buying HD-DVD thinking it will play on their DVD Players.
Both have their advantages and disadvantages, no doubt, but I I've been a fan of movies for a long time, back to the days of laser disc.
Yes, I believe price is an issue, but remember, I used to pay $100 for (laser disc) movies back in the day. Heck, my first dvd player in 1997 cost me almost $500.
Just remember, don't say one player is better than the other because of price or because you can't afford it. In the end, players will be cheap and so will movies, but right now expect to pay.
ChrisDVD -
- MPEG 2 is rarely used anymore. Early transfers yes but AVC is the norm along with VC-1
-Your arguement on Lossless VS PCM doesn't make any sense. I am a sound engineer. I'll take bit for bit PCM anyday
-I don't care about BD-J 1.0 vs 1.1 – I have only once listened to a director's commentary in the 7 years I've had a DVD player. Being able to do PIP while cool means nothing to most people. BD-J 1.1 won't change much.
Players will not be "obsolete" as you say. The player will not stop playing dvd's or BD movies.
I like both formats… just get your facts a bit more in order instead of flashing a bunch of things to scare people. Both have their strongpoints.
WARNING: Most Blu-ray players do not have an INTERNET CONNECTION!!!
Features being advertised promise internet activitiy but no one is warning the customers that most of these players will NEVER be able to be connected to the internet.
Hence you may not get to use all these features even though you may have spent one thousand dollars to purchase this Blu-ray player…
For $300 the HD DVD player all come with internet connections, the same amount of movies are being released in both formats and review ratings show HD DVD on average has a higher Picture Quality at a much better price for players and movies…
From a technical side of things, both fail in their own way. Blu-Ray falls harder on its face than HD-DVD however.
You're right, some HD-DVD movies are more expensive than some Blu-Ray films. And it is true the Toshiba's A2 can't output 1080i.
However, most consumers can't tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. Only industry folks and video pros can see a difference. Keep in mind too that older HDTVs can't handle 1080p. They only go up to 1080i. So what do think happeneds when you hook up any 1080p player to an HDTV that can only handle up to 1080i? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't show the picture in 1080p. Basically Sony is FORCING the consumer to take the 1080p player even if there is no benefit to it, if they have an older HDTV. Once again, Sony is ignoring the average consumer. They're notorious for that. Toshiba is at least letting the consumer choose the lower end model for their older TV.
Current Blu-Ray players and its' spec are incomplete. Later this year and early next year is when Blu-Ray's spec will have caught up to HD-DVD. And when it does catch up, it'll make current Blu-Ray players obsolete. Obsolete because they won't be able to handle the newer functions. Studios will have to choose to make discs with more advance functionality or stick to the basics so all players can playback the movie. If studios did choose to go all out with the functionality, consumers MUST buy a completely new player to playback the discs. You can expect a lot of returned Blu-Ray discs because of that. A firmware update fixed Pirates Of The Caribbean Blu-Ray discs, but it won't fix the Picture-In-Picture problem. The Blu-Ray players are missing hardware components. HD-DVD Players have the missing components built into EVERY player. It's the standard. Blu spec has these components as OPTIONAL.
First generation HD-DVD Players will NOT be obsolete in terms of functionality or missing hardware. All players support the complete spec. With firmware updates, you'll be able to fix the audio issues and anything else that may have bugs.
Higher capacity discs doesn't mean better. Especially if you're using the way out-of-date MPEG2 and uncompressed audio. MPEG2 is a waste of space and Lossless audio is the SAME as uncompressed PCM. Audio engineers can't hear a difference between the uncompressed PCM and TrueHD (Lossless format), how can a consumer?
In the end, Blu-Ray has somewhat of a technical and numbers edge over HD-DVD (High bitrate MPEG2 encodes and higher capacity discs), but HD-DVD is more consumer friendly. In order to win, you must be consumer friendly. If you're not, than you already failed before the war even started.
Quick note… people need to remember that Toshiba's entry level player does NOT have the same features as the Sony player at $499. Toshiba's HD-A2 model has several less features (display capabilities and audio out connections are my main concerns) than Toshiba's HD-A20 model. The A20 model has about the same capabilities (spec wise) as Sony's player and guess what? It costs the same ($499), Sony's player is a higher quality machine than Toshiba's entry level. But I know, the average consumer doesn't know that and in a marketing scheme like this price (and perception) are king. I personally like both formats and I'm waiting to see things shake out a bit before buying one, but right now, I like Blu-Ray's specs and they seem to be made better – Pete
Player price is important, but in the long run disk price is what matters. Right now, blu-ray disks are typically around $5 less than HD-DVD disks (mostly due to the more expensive "combo" format used by many HD-DVDs)
I bought a PS3 and it is the only player I use. It plays all my DVD's, CD's, BD's and PS games. I have an X-Box 360 for gaming, but rarely use it these days. I considered the debate between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for a long time, trying to decide which to choose. I didn't want to buy movies on one format just to find out that the other format is the dominant one. In the end, I decided that I didn't care which format won. I have enjoyed the playstation console since the inception of the PSX. Honestly, I just like the controller. Since the PS3 natively supports Blu-Ray, I decided to go that route with my movies. Now I totally ignore the HD-DVD format. If there's a movie that I can't get on BD, I'll just buy it on DVD. Yes, I have a 1080p TV and all that, but the movie itself is more important than which format it comes in. I'm going Blu-Ray because I'm not willing to spend more money on an attachment for my X-Box to play HD-DVD's, and my wife won't let me buy a standalone player because we "already have too many remotes". It's things like this that will decide the outcome of one format over the other. The fact that you can now buy a player that will play both BD and HD-DVD may confuse the issue a bit, but eventually one format will prevail and the other will go away. If HD-DVD prevails, I'll always have my PS3 to play the BD's that I already bought, and will just go back to buying DVD's.
Just my $0.02+GST