Some Mac loyalists turn against Adobe

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Great software takes time to create.

Changing software design from PowerPC to Intel is not easy. It required Adobe to make huge changes in their technologies and how they worked. Underestimate this kind of process at your peril.

(It IS relatively easy to upgrade from a Cocoa app designed for PowerPC mads to a Cocoa app designed for Intel Macs. But Photoshop is a carbon and not a cocoa app, and that means a lot of the changes would be very tough.)

Adobe's recent trend has been very much pro-Mac. Premiere is back on the Mac. Lightroom was first released for the Mac.

In short, I think these complaints are overblown. The new Photoshop is coming. Enjoy it when it comes.

I would not be surprised to see an 8-core PowerMac introduced almost simutaneously with Photoshop and then you guys will say "Oooh! Shiny!" and buy it and upgrade Photoshop and in five minutes you will have forgotten all of this.

And while you're at it, you'll pick up an iPhone while waiting at the Apple Store for your 16 GB memory upgrade

I know you guys.

Grumbly but loyal.

D

I agree that many of the people complaining must not be using the Intel macs for professional design. When the macbook pro was released, I bought it without concern about the new chip or distant arrival of CS3. I've had no issues making the transition from my g5 dual 2.0 ghz running CS1 natively to my macbook pro running CS1 through Rosetta. I honestly don't notice the difference, and I'm working with huge Photoshop files with Indesign and Illustrator files simultaneously. Indesign is the one that has proven to be a little buggy, not Photoshop.

I've worked with Photoshop on Windows as well without issues. Someone said Photoshop for Windows is inferior….how so? The real difference is the operating system experience, not software performance. I prefer to drive OSX, others prefer Windows.

If you have good ideas and fast computers, I think a native chip experience is just a luxury to look forward to.

First of all are those new graphics people working in Windows there because they switched from the Mac or are they there because a corporate IT manager dictated the platform for graphics people working in-house?

Second, Adobe should know that Microsoft for all of their arrogant hubris is not likely to even catch up to Apples Colorsync 4 with Vista. Does anyone want to bet that MS does any better even implementing ICM 3.0 than they accomplished with the release of Windows 2000 when Vista hits the street the end of January?

Actually, you're off a little. PDF has skewed Adobe's revenues far more to the PC side. And the Lightroom/Aperture rivalry isn't nasty, but I wouldn't call it friendly anymore. In my conversations with Adobe folks, all the way up to the CEO, they're eager to point out ways that they're outsmarting Apple.

That said, this post makes very clear that the anti-Adobe folks are a segment of the Mac community that's causing the ruckus, and it's not the whole group. That's the same thing Adobe's John Nack is saying (it's not just on MacDailyNews).

There seems to be a lack of facts here. First of all, somewhere between 40 and 50 percent of Adobe's revenues come from Mac software sales. And not only that, Macs still make up the largest share of Apple's profits – especially recently. The profit margins on Macs is much highter than the profit margins on iPods.

That is neither here nor there, though. Adobe and Apple have a very good relationship these days. Competition with Aperture and Lightroom is very friendly so far. Adobe has said they won't let happen to them what happened with Premier. That's good! Maybe Lightroom will continue to have a Mac version this time! It can only help us Aperture users get better software too.

Mac fans are no better or worse than PC fans. Check out how digg is censoring Roughlydrafted.com these days. Nobody takes Macdailynews.com seriously for the most part anyway. They're a bit too shrill in their "support" of all things Mac. But the PC fanboys are just as obnoxious and just as ignorant of the other side as the worst Mac fanboys.

So lets not set up any false controversies here about Mac fans being more off the bubble than the PC side.

As the wise man once said: "Aren't you afraid that all those straw men you keep invoking will gang up on you?"

I had a powerbook 667 that finally died so I had to upgrade. I got a 2Ghz MacBook Pro and it is great. I'm a designer and print production guy who generally has indesign, illustrator, photoshop, acrobat and quark along with mail, safari, preview and iphoto pretty much running all the time.

Yes, there are slowdowns at times, but, seriously, it all works great. Yes it'll be better when adobe updates but damn people, it's only a few months. The one time it does fall down is when trying to do a separation preview in indesign of an EPS made in quark. Don't ask, sometimes it has to be done. I long for the day quark dies it's deserving death

In case you're saying "well of course it's better than a 667", We've got a ton of other macs at work that I use on a daily basis and they're all really fast. Dual 2.0 G4s, Core Duo imacs, even the cool as all hell little minis. They all are really good.

Someone else mentioned a sense of entitlement and I think they're right, mac users have it better now than ever and still there are complaints. I do wonder however, if some or even most of the whining is done by people who don't even have an intel mac or is just FUD by windows users.

This is pretty much Adobe's doing and it all goes back to Adobe's attempt to lock down the font market way back but Apple not wanting to choose a proprietary choice went with QuickdrawXL (?) … I'm not expert so i'm sure there's some detailed writeup somewhere on the web but after that – Adobe basically treated Apple and Mac users as a hated stepchild. It was also during that time that Windows took off but Apple users were stubborn, refusing to give up the Mac – for Adobe, it was large enough they couldn't concede the Mac market by abadoning it but clearly they were annoyed they had to support two platforms – everything appeared first on Windows – sometimes 6-12 months earlier! just as the big-then switch from OS6 to a much different OS7, Abobe was late and slow – they were real, real late from Classic to OSX – took them 11 months after the switch also and now, once again … part of it is they know that people are not going to switch from PS but Adobe better watch out because like at Quark, arrogance usually comes back to bite you. I think Apple will wait until PS is out and having sold an extra 500,000 blistering Quad chip desktops, Apple will release their PS killer sometime in 2008 – of course, not everyone is willing to switch but people will give it a try because Apple can sell a full blown graphics editing app at $299-$399 and be more than ahppy knowing that like Apeture, the serious people will be willing to spend another $4k to get full use of it … Adobe – too arrogant and too slow.

Several of my clients are waiting until an updated version of Creative Suite is available before they upgrade to new MACs. That represents nearly 100 of the most powerful MAC systems w/displays, along with all that software $$. There is no way these old-timers will switch from MAC or CS. Productivity = Profits

To address the comment on sales and profit growth: two things.

First, Apple itself has attributed some of the uptick in Mac sales to the "halo effect" from the iPod. So though Apple recently got a nice Mac bump that made its computers top-sellers again, the company attributes some of that to the iPod.

Second, I mentioned growth specifically. The Mac's doing well lately, but it's still nowhere near the iPod and iTunes in terms of sales and profit growth trajectory. We'll see if that changes.

There are just as many/more MAC pro designers, just more home and garden variety hobby designers who make us look better and generate sales for us and Adobe. I constantly take over jobs and "fix" them. Adobe can not be trusted for sure (Illustrator is still leaking memory since OS 8.5). The only good program they have for professionals is Photo Shop. "Bridge" is a joke full of bugs. The rest they purchased form others who were better and most likely will canabalize it, like most aquisitions go. Adobe is in a reactive mode at best. They are exactly following the Microsoft model give it away for free to gain marketshare and then sit on it. When greed overtakes vision….. Its very telling when they get defensive.

It is frustrating that Adobe are taking so long to get Intel apps out. With all the new system level stuff (coreImage etc), Apple are well placed to put out an alternative if the need arises – or indeed Apple decide to compete head on with Adobe.

If Apple did release their own Photoshop, things could get nasty for Adobe, it would be likely that Mac users would give Apple's offering serious (and possibly biased) consideration over PS.

Please stop whining! At first i didn't want to bother but i have to get this of my chest and in to some thick skulls around here. This once again proves that Mac users are ignorant and arrogant people with no personality other then their Mac. Look further d*mmit then some attention starving inciting Apple vs Adobe article.

Bashing down on Adobe for not delivering the tools you need, but why? Because the other Mac-users are doing it? Because you assume you know how Apple and Adobe disclosed this deal? Don't be a sheep. It is you and only you who made a stupid decision when you bought a Intel Mac only because your holy leader Steve said so, NOT because you actually needed it.

If you'd paid attention you did know that Adobe made a clear statement about how and when they are going Universal. And you know that your 'old' G5 runs the tools where your waiting for 'insanely' fast, hell even the latest G4 will do the job smoother then Rosetta on a Quad. And you should know that transitions are always painfully and eventually pay off, and as a sidenote i believe that this one is the smoothest transition ever. You also might know that the hardware transition to Intel went a lot faster then first projected by Steve Jobs. Suppose it went like Steve lied to told us you could buy a Mac Pro at the end of this year and have all Adobe tools within half a year, hows that for a fast transition. But things went a lot faster for Apple on the hardwareside because Apple knows how to keep their shareholders happy and knows where the money is and its not with you guys, its the home-user not the pro-user.

So instead of bashing down on Adobe you should learn how to support a difficult transition like a fan and not make it even more difficult for the other guy who is working his *ss of to get the product out. People really have no clue these days other then demanding instead of paying attention.

So once again, it proves a lot of Mac users are ignorant, arrogant and your personality stops when you pull your magsafe plug out.

Cheers, Cheyenne

Proud user of a iMac G4, iMac Core Duo, Macbookpro, AMD Athlon X2 4200, Intel MacMini and not buying a Mac Pro yet because Steve told me too

Apple should use cash to buy out Adobe.
Apple did own 10% of the Adobe before they had to sell stocks for the cash. Then Apple should discontinue Windows versions.
Another company to buy is the SAP.
If we then make a merger with Apple (Adobe/SAP) and Intel (Nvidia).
We would have a massive company.
That merger would create a true business company that could compete with other player like Microsoft.

Most of what is written in this article is completely false. For example:

"Five years later, the iPod is the main driver of Apple's sales and its profit growth…"
Wrong, 58% of Apple revenues come from computers, the rest from applications (such as OS X Tiger) and iPods.

"Apple is now very much a consumer company at its core, and is puzzling over how to regain lost ground with professional users."

Apple IS a consumer company, but while it has trouble getting into the business environement, it's multimedia presence is still very powerful. While PC hobbyist thrive on internet websites posting their home-made Sci-fi films made in Premiere, Final Cut Pro outsells EVERY other editing program there is out there, and by a wide margin. The entire industry and the school system fueiling it is going Final Cut. Music, as always, is done on Mac amd I haven't met a single graphic firm that uses an inferior Windows-based Photoshop, not one.

Good article. But duck and cover Jon Fortt. The crazies are a-coming.

I think the attitude of entitlement from some in the anti-Adobe segment is really interesting.

The advancement of Apple's stock price – which is largely based on the success of iPods, not Macs – seems to have emboldened you. And as I noted, Apple's willingness to wade into pro photo software has emboldened you further.

In truth, though, Apple still needs third-party developers to make pro Mac apps. As powerful as the Cupertino company has become, it can't afford to piss off all of its friends and do all software development in-house.

I can understand the frustration from people who wish Adobe would bring its apps over faster. But do you really think attacking Adobe is the best use of your time? What about all the big software companies out there that have always treated Macs like second-class citizens?

Seems like some folks out there are basically slapping their sisters for not making dinner fast enough. We'll see if that works.

OK so Apple will write its own version of Photoshop and Adobe will leave the marketplace. That's what some of you are saying. You are pretty dumb. Here's why. As Apple gets rid of all others it can then charge whatever it wants for the software. Also the only answer becomes one that Apple tells you. As Apple opens more stores and rids the world of other resellers, what happens is that only the software Apple want to sell goes on the shelf and slowly all others are going out of business. So keep loving Apple and only Apple, drink the Koolaid and then in the long run you will pay for it.
Now before you say Adobe knew far in advance, tht may not be true at all. Apple keeps everything secret, even to its own people. Remember Photoshop was orginally written many years ago, this is not a simple rewrite but rather a start from nothing. Just as Office is a total new product. Thats what is taking so long for older software to be converted. The convertion process is actually a total rewrite.

MacDailyNews response:
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/11504/

This is what happen if a company cornered the whole segment of market and monopolize it. Apple should make Adobe sell Freehand to Apple using anti-trust law and re develop to Intel Format and release to the public so that Adobe would have to hurry up to get the products out.

By your logic, Apple should never have been "undiplomatic" to Microsoft because it could not survive without Explorer and Office.

I think Apple has shown that SW app makers need to be supportive or face direct competition from Apple. Apple will support their base, period.

Adobe knows this painful lesson, but has yet to accept it. Meanwhile they overlook the most important business law of the Network age: Microsoft doesn't partner (embrace extend extinguish).